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thehawk Inner circle 2275 Posts |
Is mentalism getting more popular with all magicians? I believe it is as more and more effects are starting to include some mental effects which is great.
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Anabelle Special user 951 Posts |
It is great and I think it's getting more popular with magicians, but I think it's mental magic instead of mentalism. There is a difference.
Anabelle |
dpe666 Inner circle 2895 Posts |
I made the change from magician to mentalist because I got better reactions from audiences when I did a mental effect. Even when I would do an effect for "Show-N-Tell" back in 1st grade, I was always asked "How did you do it?" far more when I did a mental effect than when I did a magic effect. I think I get better reactions from mentalism because people still WANT mentalism to be REAL. No one expects a magician to get on stage, and REALLY float people or REALLY saw someone in half. They also know that you did not "find their card" because of some great power. However, when I get on stage, there is a good portion of the audience (especially women) who wants to believe that I really can read their minds, or see into the future.
Anabelle pointed out that there is a difference between mentalism and mental magic. She is right, and I for one HATE mental magic. To me, it is one or the other. You are either a mentalist, or a magician. You can't be both. One cancels out the other. If you do a mental effect where something magical happens, then you are a magician, and not a mentalist. If you do an effect where something POSSIBLE but astronomically unlikely happens, you are a mentalist, and would never call yourself a magician. I, for one, want my audience to believe that the things I am doing COULD be for real, so I would never do anything totally impossible or magical. |
trickiewillie Regular user Virginia 128 Posts |
I too see a clear difference between magic and mentalism. People know "magic" is a trick. They know it is simply not possible to really make something vanish, or appear or float or whatever.
In mentalism, it is possible -- no matter how improbable -- that you drew the same picture they did by coincidence, or guessed the secret number by luck. The odds of it happening, and happening repeatedly, are very high, and the fact that you do it makes it more magical than "magic tricks." Nobody goes to see David Copperfield or Lance Burton believing they are doing REAL magic. But plenty of people believe John Edward is the real thing. Lots of people go to the neighborhood fortune teller because they believe the fortune teller has "the gift." |
Lee Darrow V.I.P. Chicago, IL USA 3588 Posts |
Actually, one can be both a mentalist and a magician in the same performance.
Aside from Kreskin's standard of opening with a magic trick (often the production of a glass of water as he takes off his suit jacket), one can do magic for a length of time, step back and say, "Okay, let's move away from the tricks and take a look at something different..." I've done that for over three decades and it works quite well for me. Just an early morning thought. Lee Darrow, C.Ht. http://www.leedarrow.com
http://www.leedarrow.com
<BR>"Because NICE Matters!" |
Neale Bacon Inner circle Burnaby BC Canada 1775 Posts |
I remember seeing Max Maven in an interview once saying "one of the reasons I got into mentalism is (pause) because I don't have to lug around such large props. Well that's only a (pause) partial answer."
Thought it was funny, and more than a bit of truth there I suspect.
Neale Bacon and his Crazy Critters
Burnaby BC Canada's Favourite Family Ventriloquist www.baconandfriends.com |
dpe666 Inner circle 2895 Posts |
I have to disagree with you, Lee. In my opinion, if you are producing bunnies and cutting and restoring ropes, then you try to "read minds" the audience percieves that you are still doing magic tricks. We as magicians know the difference, but I do not believe that lay people do. When I do my show as it is now, I am called a psychic or a mentalist. When I did my OLD act (7 years ago) which combined magic and mentalism, I was called a magician.
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Scott Grimm Regular user Chicago 141 Posts |
You always know if my act is halfway over because I do a magic trick. If I am doing a show that is 45 min. or longer this is standard at the midway point. I can get around the problem by saying, "People often ask me if I do any magic tricks. Well, I've been around this game for a long time and, yes, I have learned some. Would you all like to see a magic trick?" The audience always says yes very enthusiastically. This does something fun and lighthearted and keeps their attention. It also leads them to the unexpected heavier stuff that comes with the last half of the show.
I have watched many strictly mentalist shows. One thing that remains constant is the spectators will eventually think to themselves, "OK, we get it. You can read my mind. Can you do anything else?" Believe it or not, this has helped me immeasurably.
Faith is at the heart of all magic.
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MindExplosion Regular user 133 Posts |
I've noticed the increasing popularity of mentalism and mental magic. I keep reading on the various boards people new to magic asking about mentalism, and people that have been doing *magic* for quite some time are asking for recommendations, and raving about various mental materials.
As for the combining of magic and mentalism that has worked its way into this thread, Kenton Knepper has an article or two posted over at Online Visions that deals with labeling, and I immediately printed myself a copy to refer back to whenever I start thinking that I really need to keep it seperate. |
jlevey Inner circle Montreal, Quebec, Canada 2076 Posts |
For those that seek further perspectives on the merits of combining Magic and Mentalism, consider checking out the Magic Café's archived Special Guest Interview, with internationally respected Mentalist, Ted Lesley (posted in June 2003).
In addition to his thoughts on Magic/Mentalism, I like Mr. Lesley's approach of moving down into the audience and letting the spectators go up on stage to use their own "mental/intuitive" powers. It's not for everyone, but I believe it would work extremely well for some. On the subject of Magic vs. Mentalism, one line of thought is that the "performer" must determine if they want to be 1. Perceived as an "entertainer", 2. As a person who possesses intuitive, people/behavior influencing abilities, and body/voice language reading skills, or 3. A "gifted" individual who can really read minds. As I move towards developing my own show, I believe I will be most comfortable combining the first two on the list, with a touch of the third, to keep the audience (and participants) wondering. It's really too early for me to offer much input on the subject of Mentalism as I am just beginning to explore the field and to envision where my new persona will take me (and my audience). Any response to the above, and any feedback on the Osterlind series of tapes, Derren Brown, Kenton Knepper, as well as other reading/video sources for newcomers to this field would be much appreciated.
Jonathan
Max & Maxine Entertainment Magicians with a touch of comedy! ___________________________________ www.maxmagician.com www.mindreadershow.com www.monsieurmagic.com |
Lee Darrow V.I.P. Chicago, IL USA 3588 Posts |
Quote:
On 2004-01-08 12:59, dpe666 wrote: Well, as I don't produce bunnies or restore ropes, so, maybe it's a matter of how I handle it from what's called in psychology, the framing aspect of the presentation. As a trade show worker and close up guy, my material ranges from the Chop Cup to rubber bands to some card work, sponges, coins and the like. When I finish the magic module, usually by doing something with a slightly mental flavor, I sit back, sigh and completely change my affect - how I sit, move and even talk, seemingly stepping out of character and into myself. When I do that and move into a more earnest and serious mien, the audience follows. I often follow with the psychic key - in the hand of an audience member (ideomotor suggestion & response), there is little question that something unusual (and not a magic trick) has occurred. If that is followed by something like Kathy's Screwy Finger Bit (Jim Ran issue of the Menu), another ideomotor test, the bridge into mentalism has been built and crossed. The audience now is watching something other than magic. Sorry if I was a little vague on how I do that in my prior post. Hope this helps clarify my methodology. Thanks for helping me to put it out here in a (hopefully) more succinct and concise manner. I sometimes tend to assume that I'm being clearer than I actually am. Lee Darrow, C.Ht. http://www.leedarrow.com
http://www.leedarrow.com
<BR>"Because NICE Matters!" |
Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
If you produce a rabbit because you said you could... you are a magician.
If you produce a bunny from your hat, and put it back and it's ALWAYS the same bunny, year after year... you are bizarrist. If you produce a bunny from a borrowed hat because they are thinking of a bunny, are you a mentalist?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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filem New user 47 Posts |
You may be interested in reading Knepper's latest thoughts over at the On Line Visions site.
Indeed mentalism is the latest craze in the magic community, just like (as Knepper points out) comedy magic was "it" in the eighties. Really ridiculous when you think about it. "Oh, everyone else is doing it. I must too..." |
Bob Sanders Grammar Supervisor Magic Valley Ranch, Clanton, Alabama 20504 Posts |
Quote:
On 2004-01-06 21:09, Anabelle wrote: Anabelle makes a very telling point here. The difference between mental magic and mentalism is like the difference between card magic and a card cheat. One is honest with its audience in its motive to entertain and the other is there to prey on a victim. Where I’m from, hanging the second type saves a lot of money and is just a function of civil responsibility. Just kidding! I do see mentalism as a legitimate area of study. By the same token, I have great problems with those who do use it to prey on others for personal gain. Perhaps the masked magician (note the lower case) should pursue these instead. Oh, never mind. He can’t do that. It might serve some honorable purpose. The media wouldn’t touch that with a ten-foot pole. We have to think in terms of victim maximization. (Where do they find the idiots to sponsor these broadcasts? Why would you be willing to pay extra for a bad image? I’m wrong again. This is an election year.) I'm a magician, not a cheat. Many times in my life as a magician, I have been asked by my client to help some guest get into a locked car. With as much diplomacy as I can muster under the circumstances, I tell them "I am an entertainer, not a thief. Let's call a locksmith." I don’t like the public confusion between mental magic and mentalism any more than I like the public confusion between card magic and card cheats. Off and on throughout my life rodeo has been very important to me. Recently I had to accept the reality of mass ignorance about roles in entertainment. A new mayor of a black community was just trying to make conversation and made a very offensive remark about role of the clown in the rodeo. He never understood that the real role of the rodeo clown is to protect the rider from the bull. He only had his very limited experience from which to draw his information about clowns. That is unfortunately true of many in the masses that learn about card magic and mental magic at the hands of a cheat. It is not our responsibility to educate or protect them from their own ignorance. However, we can set our selves apart in the beginning with a simple honest disclaimer. “I am here to entertain you. My vehicle is magic. I encourage to enjoy it as we suspend reality for an interlude of amusement.” Bob |
Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
The real difference between mental magic and mentalism is the focus on props. Look at Buckley's Gems of Mental Magic and you will see a prime example of what I mean. Copperfield's "Graffiti" illusion is not mentalism. It is mental magic. Mentalism is about reading minds or showing psychic powers. Mental magic is about nifty props that the audience can blame for your skills.
But it is still possible to mix mentalism and magic, without either one suffering. Many well-known mentalists perform some version of the linking of three finger rings. The audience credits their psychic powers. It's all in the sell.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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