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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Right or Wrong? » » Scam School Exposure (41 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Slim King
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Scam School sucks.... Smile
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
Dougini
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I totally agree! In my opinion, Brian B is a bottom-feeder for this! But, I'm not even an amateur any more. Exposure ruined my love for performing! Half a dozen times my performance has been ruined by people who think it's funny to punk a guy by turning on the 60", and showing YouTube! So yeah, I quit.

I'm a hobbyist now. A collector of fine effects. I don't lose anything by doing that. They do!

Doug
Steve_Mollett
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Quitter! Smile
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth.
- Albert Camus
Dougini
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Ya know, for the right people...I can be coerced. I keep a small kit ready for just that. It's a different world...

Doug
Steve_Mollett
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Smile
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth.
- Albert Camus
TheMightyRicardo
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Annoying though it often is, exposure will increase the surprise in "sucker tricks" where the audience "figures out" the method. I think we will see more of these. It is also is good for creators of new tricks and creators of new methods for old tricks.

Richard
mastermindreader
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Quote:
On Jan 4, 2015, TheMightyRicardo wrote:
Annoying though it often is, exposure will increase the surprise in "sucker tricks" where the audience "figures out" the method. I think we will see more of these. It is also is good for creators of new tricks and creators of new methods for old tricks.

Richard


So, to be clear, are you saying that exposure like this is, overall, a good thing?
TheMightyRicardo
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Hi Mastermindreader,
No, I find exposure very annoying, although I am not above watching Scam School or some kid on Youtube exposing a recently-bought trick. But if we can't protect secrets, I am looking for a way to undermine exposure and I think the "Sucker Trick" is the way to go.
Think of the Die Box. You lead people to think they know how it is done, then you spring the surprise ending. I've seen "sucker tricks" done well on stage.
Sometimes you know an alternate way to perform the same trick that leaves the knowing ones in the dust.
What do you think?
Also this is gold for those brilliant creators of new methods (or redo old forgotten methods).

Richard
TheMightyRicardo
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Another thought on exposure - it is not just a modern problem.
I read a book about the life of Houdini a few years ago. Houdini put a vast amount of time and effort into exposing psychics and mediums as frauds. A very clever medium, "Marjery" stumped Houdini for a while, but he kept on with obsessive tenacity until he thought he could discover and expose her methods.
I imagine Marjery would consider our problems with exposure minor by comparison.

Richard
mastermindreader
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And it's been alleged that Houdini actually planted false evidence in Margery's spirit cabinet in order to discredit her when he was unable to actually figure out her methods.
Slim King
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Quote:
On Jan 7, 2015, mastermindreader wrote:
And it's been alleged that Houdini actually planted false evidence in Margery's spirit cabinet in order to discredit her when he was unable to actually figure out her methods.

I agree Bob.... That's why the entire Houdini thing is so interesting .. He apologized for doing this in the seance!!!!
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
Tukaram
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Quote:
On Dec 11, 2014, Terrible Wizard wrote:
...Do people really think that there is absolutely nothing that can be done to reduce exposure?...


The only thing you can do is create your own effects and sell them to no one! Sucks - but that is life.


I have learned a majority of my card tricks from some YouTube teachers. Is it really that different than going to the library and reading a book about it? When I was a kid I had no money to pay for books so I went to the library and read them for free - now we have YouTube. But I have also spent a small fortune on DVD's so I do support the real artists too.

But in the world of the internets... for good or bad, exposure is now a fact of life.
CRash5150
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We see magic different then laymen. Yes, magic is being exposed. But, I think most sleights should not be detected in the first place. I pretty much know when I see a DL, but laymen don't or shouldn't.
Albert_Sjoberg
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I found this thread very interesting.
I understand the objections raised by Slim King and others. At the same time I think Pop Haydn's pragmatic approach is the best approach to the perceived problem.
But therein lies the crux of this entire thread. I do believe the problem is only perceived and not real.

The layperson that stumbles upon a video revelation on youtube may very well find themselves viewing a video of funny cats a short time later. The trick quickly disappears in the noise. It is not possible for any one person to view all the videos that are uploaded to youtube in a lifetime, so unless a layperson is dedicated to seeking out a particular sleight or effect, the chances of stumbling upon an effect I am about to perform is pretty slim. Every single one of you know how much practice it takes to correctly perform a routine. The layperson clicking through youtube videos simply lacks what is required to ever perform a trick. If the layperson is interested enough, they will begin to search, practice and seek out a mentor or organisation and the ranks of performing magicians will swell.

When it comes to putting stuff upon a big screen while you are performing, that is truly bad taste, but certainly not insurmountable. There is so much advice available on dealing with hecklers. There are sucker routines and different endings that can be substituted in so many routines. It simply means that we are performing for a more informed and sophisticated audience. I love Fred Kaps' performances. I am intimately familiar with the workings of his performance. I still enjoy watching him perform on video, and now even Youtube. I defy anyone to watch a Ricky Jay video, say '52 Assistants' and say which sleight he used. You may know, you may have bought the routines, but his work is flawless. So even knowing exactly what and how he did it, does not in any way detract from the entertainment value of his work. It certainly does not affect his earning potential.

The world has over seven billion people. so even if a video has 70 million views, it will only have been viewed by one percent of the world. Over 300 million people in the USA, so 3 million views, assuming they are all from the US still means barely one percent of the US population have seen one sleight of trick in your routine. That is hardly a cause for concern. Not all those views on youtube are from the country you live in.

Honestly, how many of you actually believe that the audience you perform for thinks magic is real. Your audience is aware that it is not real, but is willing to let you trick, baffle and confuse them. Even knowing that magic is not real, they are amazed by the production of a dove, and the location of a selected card or the number of swords shoved into a basket without stabbing the attractive assistant.

Is scam school Right or Wrong. Neither, they simply are. What it means that some of their videos have received millions of views is that even in the twenty first century there are millions upon millions people that are interested in magic and they may end up paying for a ticket to see you perform or purchasing one of your effects from a retailer. Perhaps a video will encourage someone else to become a magician. The more magicians there are, the more potential customers the retail magic outlets have and the more people that may one day buy your products. I see very little downside.
Dannydoyle
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Many a professional magician started their career in the library. How is that not "exposure"?

Define the word. Seriously define it so we know what is being discussed. What level should you be before you can read a secret in a book? Terrible Wizard are you a professional? If not then why are YOU entitled to know anything beyond the Ball and Vase?

I just think it is funny when people want to close and lock the doors once they are in the room.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Slim King
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By exposing Robert Neale's RPS routine on Scam School he made more money than Robert Neale did selling it in his book. It's shameful. I paid for the book... About $30. Now Brian gives the secret away for free while collecting a small fortune from Youtube and Go-Daddy!!!! Brian told Robert he was going to share it with his "students" and Robert said OK.... Robert had no idea it would be........

TWO AND A HALF MILLION VIEWS.......

Not only is it exposure .. It's theft!!!!!!
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
Kyoki_Sanitys_Eclipse
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Alright it's been awhile since I took notes on a subject before speaking but here we go. I feel that exposure is wrong. I am in the business of astonishment. My job is to show people something impossible. Not a trick or puzzle. Now I don't think my audience thinks what I'm doing is real but they can suspend belief like in other forms of theater. Someone on here said they can still enjoy a performance even when they know it's secret. I can to. But this isn't true for most audiences. If they know the secret it becomes just a trick. Look at our fellow magi. I visited Gatlinburg TN and hit up all the local shops. Each one I went into would say that they didn't have anything good and I wouldn't be fooled. This was a perfessionals mindset let alone a lay person. Now I'm a lover of magic and don't try to figure a trick out when I watch it, I simply lI've the magick. But most magi do. It's hard to suspend belief when you know.

This exposure doesn't just effect the one percent either. I perform for people and each time someone sees a trick and pulls out their phone others will begin to watch and they will even pull others in. This destroys that moment of astonishment that I am trying to create for everyone around that person. It's not just people surfing the Internet at home. On a perfessional level that weakens my performance and may not get me rebooked. I'm not simply presenting skill like a juggler.

As for the difference between the Internet and going to the library there is a huge difference. One actually takes effort. Reading takes effort. Going the the library takes effort. Pulling up a five minute video on your phone doesn't. I would love to know how many magi actually were inspire for Magick by the internet.
ScamSchoolBrian
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Oh, hello. Brian Brushwood here, happy to answer your questions, gentlemen. What did I miss up until now?

I've got a slower couple of days, so Ask Me Anything.

*hugs*

Brian
Kyoki_Sanitys_Eclipse
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You could start by addressing some of the concerns raised on this thread and show how your channel does more good than harm. I would like to know your philosophy on magic. It seems like you just perform to trick or fool people and to seem skilled. You don't perform for astonishment
ScamSchoolBrian
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Quote:
On Dec 8, 2015, Kyoki_Sanitys_Eclipse wrote:
You could start by addressing some of the concerns raised on this thread and show how your channel does more good than harm. I would like to know your philosophy on magic.


Like this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwQJXgQaHiM
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