Any tips for pushing off two cards as one (without catching a break or thumb counting) for the purposes of a second deal or maybe a double lift (I think Blaine uses a two card push off).

Private or public, just looking for some help.

Thanks

Get Gregory's Wilson Double Take video.

Since double lifts and second deals can be done with either a side push-off or a front push-off, I'll do my best to give advice on both.

Re: the side push-off, it's extremely hard to push over two cards in close alignment from a perfectly squared deck. It's a big help if the cards are beveled to the right (for right handers). Simon Lovell has an excellent manual on the second deal which includes an excellent technical description of the exact mechanics. Until you get a hold of that (and you should), bevel the deck, and bevel it widely.

You should also look at Erdnase's 2nd method for the second deal and Dai Vernon's New Theory second deal. Neither of those deals is dependent on the perfect alignment of the two cards.

As for a side push-off DL, you may want to look at Ross Bertram's method. It has its roots in the aforementioned Erdnase technique. The most recent description is in David Ben's new book, "Tricks." It is also described in one of the Bertram books (although I can't recall which one...buy both). Also, this DL does not require that the cards be push off in perfect alignment, as an action by the right hand will correct for any imperfection before the turnover begins.

Now, for the front push-off...

Erdnase's 1st method is a front push-off second deal. It's performed in a similar grip to the Erdnase bottom deal. You can easily adapt it to normal dealer's grip, however. Erdnase advocates using the left thumb to minutely backjog the top card (only a fraction of the width of the white border is necessary). In that condition the thumb contacts both of the top two cards and makes the push-off quite easy. With time you'll find the "get-ready" to be less necessary and you'll be able to push two cards off in reasonable close alignment immediately. A slight twisting bevel to the deck will facilitate this.

The DL you refered to is Martin Nash's "knock-out DL." I'm not sure where it's in print, but I know it's on Greg Wilson's "Double-Take" video. Of course, if you can do the double push-over, figuring out the rest of the mechanics shouldn't pose two much of a problem. This is actually a very good move for practicing the push-over, because the mechanics of the move make extremely close alignment unnecessary (although such alignment will almost certainly develop with time).

Other than that, the best advice I can give you is:

1. Use the tips of the left fingers as a gauge. With practice it'll be very easy to a) tell if you've pushed off two cards and b) prevent extra cards from being pushed over using the left middle and ring finger

2. Keep a soft touch. The harder your thumb bears down, the more cards are going to move. If you keep a very soft touch, and don't tense up, you'll acquire the knack (and it is a knack) faster.

3. Practice in front of the tv/computer/whatever. The only way to really get good at this sort of thing is to ingrain it into your muscle memory.

Hope this helps.

Paul

For those of you who are history buffs or minutiae collectors, I thought the following information on the technique referenced above might be of interest. I have seen and learned and used the RB technique explained by Ron himself (below) for many years now - it is THE best method extant...


This is from an interview with Ron Bauer on the Magic Bunny board:

"...RBauer: I developed my technique for the double turnover over a period of time that runs approximately 1958 to 1961. Actually, more than my consciously developing the approach, it evolved during that two and a half years while I worked close-up magic every week at the Kenwood Club on the West side of Detroit to supplement my meagre income.

My method is more or less in print because of Charlie Miller. In 1982, Charlie and I had performed a few tricks after a Thanksgiving dinner (sort of a sing for your supper sortie). When we returned home, he asked me to run through the tricks so he could observe them from various angles (ostensibly for “analyzing,” but he was actually using “Malini diplomacy” for getting a closer look at something of which he was curious). When I casually referred to the “double turnover” during my explanation, his eyebrows arched and his eyes widened. “Double turnover?” He had missed it three times!

This surprised me because I was sure he had seen me use it at least once when he was a guest in our home in Michigan for several weeks in the sixties. Perhaps he missed it then, too, or, more likely, I never used it in his presence. Whatever the reason, he was greatly enthused, and immediately began making plans to publish it his monthly Magicana in Genii magazine.

Well, to me, this was the double turnover--a standard move. Although I’d privately explained my procedure and psychology to a few magicians over the years, I could never considered publishing it as “The Bauer Double Turnover.”

After much discussion, we agreed it wasn’t EXACTLY about the double turnover, but about TECHNIQUE. You see, it wasn’t so much that I had such a deceptive way of taking two cards as one, but I’d worked out actions that attracted no direct attention (there were no tells), and there was no obvious cause-effect relationship, i.e., I didn’t show a card in one place, then immediately show it in another, that would lead to uncovering the secret.

With that, I did my best to crowd an explanation into the limited space of the November, 1982 Magicana. Not only did this force me to omit details and background, Charlie’s illustrator didn’t understand the handling, and got the visual references wrong.

The publication caused several unanticipated hostile responses. Not so much about the technique, but reacting to Charlie’s disclosure that when he watched me perform, the unique thing was he had not even suspected that I was employing a move. The most common complaint to follow (from several very well-known card men) was, “What about MY double lift?” The dispute went on for months. Oddly, though many magicians asked me about the procedure, I never received a single challenge.

Finally, one magician, with an Iago complex, wrote a multi-page letter that upset Charlie because he considered this guy a troublemaker and difficult to evade. The letter basically pointed out that I had “lifted” Martin Nash’s “Knockout Double Lift.”

Martin was appearing at the Magic Castle at this time, so I asked him. He told me he’d learned the basic mechanics from Dick Zimmerman. I was working with Dick on a project at the time, so I asked him. He told me he learned it from Dai Vernon... That one can send a chill during a controversy because many magicians believe that The Professor invented everything! Not to worry. Vernon told me he was shown it by Larry Jennings (my student in the early sixties), who told him he learned it from someone in the Midwest. (I wonder who?) Is that convoluted enough?

Now, understand, that up to now, nobody (including Ed Marlo, Bob Stencel, Carmen Damico, Dai Vernon, Milton Kort, Charles Aste, Jack McMillen, Paul Chosse, and many others who had discussed this technique with me) have questioned my originality. You’d think one of these guys would have recognized it or anything similar if such were the case.

Please excuse me for going on about this. But, in recent years a similar attack on my veracity regarding this technique has appeared here and there. So, this summer, I’m going to publish this technique in excruciating detail, and let the chumps fall where they may!"

Hope you enjoyed this little bit of card handling history...

Best, PSC

I like the method from Expert Card Technique. I didn't like the Nash method nearly as much...

Any comments about the One Hand Push-Off from Expert Card Technique?

I selfishly wish Mr. Bauer would publish his turnover. Ever since I saw the video on his website, I've been dying to learn it.

Using a pinky count works wonderfully.

I've always found pinky counts much harder to do than just pushing over 2 cards. I don't see how people can use pinky counts.

James

If you're dealing multiple seconds, this seems very impractical.

With regards to the Bauer TCTT, it looks fantastic. However, summer has come and gone. Anybody have any idea when this is going to make it out? Paul?

Derrick

I asked the webmaster from Ron Bauer's site, and he said that it's on the back burner.

Oh well.

Tony C.

On Greg Wilson's Pyro something (dunno exact name) video pasteboards, he does a beautiful double. I suggest to look there also because he does beautiful classics too.

I use a thumb count (in front) ala Larry Jennings. It works very well.

Personally, I hate any break or thumb counting for double lifts.. that's why I have been practicing the crap out of the double push off.

Here's a vid of me doing it. I'm not saying it's the best, but it's the best I can come to as being completly natural.

http://www.tonychang.net/magic/DL.mov

Tony C.

If it were me I'd go to RB's website and add my name to the growing list of magician's worldwide who are demanding that RB release this material! Dowdy, his webmaster, has noted repeatedly that if there is enough demand RB will ultimately cave, and release whatever you want...

Best, PSC

I use a flash double lift. It uses a two card push off. I think that Vernon's push off count from Inner Secrets of Card Magic is a great place to start.

Hi,
I've been practising the two card push-off. I must say that it's one of the methods in double-lift that I like most, at least so far.
It's something which looks so natural yet astonishingly deceptive.
Can anyone help me out here..how does one exactly do the two card push-off? Is it totally by feel? Any tips or advice?

Kammall

LiquidSn is doing Double Push-off far better than me. I envy him that he can double push-off without spreading two cards without difficulty.

I noticed a very tiny thing which I think he can improve. That is timing of the right hand and left hand.

In the video, as soon as his left hand start to push-off, the right hand moves to upper right corner of the deck. I think you'd better start push-off as soon as the right hand starts moving to the deck. I mean you'd better move the right hand first.

Maybe my English is not good enough to tell this tiny difference.

As movement of hands or fingers tell the intention of the magician, I think it's better to show the intention of the right hand more impressively.

Hideo Kato

To answer the initial question, how about if you rough the appropriate sides of the first & second card? Will push off together perfectly...

Hi Jive,
What do you mean by rough the appropriate sides of the first and second card?

I believe Jive was joking.

Hideo Kato