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TonyB2009
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Destiny, 1169, or 1172, it doesn't matter. That was the beginning of the British presence in Ireland. It would be another hundred years before it could be called British rule - and then it was only in half the country. The plague and the war of the roses brought an end to British rule for a hundred years, and it was only in Tudor times that British rule was reestablished. You could not say that Ireland was conquered until 1650, with Oliver Cromwell. That is the only time you could accuse the British of genocide against the Irish.

The British did NOT cause the over-reliance of the Irish on the potato. The chief reason for this is that the population exploded, tripling from the mid-eighteenth century to the start of the famine, and doubling in the forty years before the famine. The peasants had large families, and instead of the children moving to the cities as they did in other European countries, they subdivided the land, farming ever smaller holdings as the decades passed. This peculiarly Irish attachment to the land - still a feature of modern society - led to vast overpopulation of the rural areas, and hence the reliance on potatoes, which grew abundantly in the poor land. This was not the fault of British policy, but a direct result of the peculiarly Irish family structures.

The British passed no laws forcing the Irish to rely on the potato.

Sure, they passed laws protecting the wealthy. That is what governments did back them - and still do today. Even in Australia. But the characterize the Irish famine as the fault of the British is simply incorrect.
critter
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It has recently come to my attention that a 12 pack of Dr. Pepper costs $18 in Australia. You people are getting shafted.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
Destiny
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Had to google - don't think I've ever drunk it but I do remember seeing it in a store once - there's a website sells a 12 pack for $15 and I see their warehouse or store is only 5 minutes from me but I already drink too much carbonated drink.
critter
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A friend is visiting and telling us how much gas and food and everything is.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
tommy
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The doughnut was created in 1847 and the international extraordinary characters always keep their eye upon the doughnut and not upon the hole. The international extraordinary characters of London are past masters at divide and conquer. They have kept Northern Ireland as a state for centuries. That way they can then rile the two sides up with racial, religious ethnic or whatever conflicts as and when it suits them. Then they step in with their laws which restrict everyone, which gets the international extraordinary characters further along with their extraordinary agenda. It seems to me the doughnut the London boys had their eye on was the wonderful farm land of Ireland. I would not put it past the London boys to cause a famine to grab the land. Also it one thing for there to be food and quite another to able to pay for it. Many not only died but many also sold up and left Ireland. I am betting the London boys made a killing out it either way.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Markymark
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Good points about 'Divide and rule' Tommy.A lot of the first Irish Republicans were Protestant and Presbyterian.I'm thinking of
Wolfe Tone,Henry Joy McCrackan.Robert Emmett, and my personal hero Lord Edward Fitzgerald who left the British army to join the Irish
Republican Brotherhood.
''In memory of a once fluid man,crammed and distorted by the classical mess'' -Bruce Lee
landmark
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Quote:
The British passed no laws forcing the Irish to rely on the potato.


La majestueuse égalité des lois, qui interdit au riche comme au pauvre de coucher sous les ponts, de mendier dans les rues et de voler du pain.

In its majestic equality, the law forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, beg in the streets and steal loaves of bread.
tommy
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Murphy's Law.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
wulfiesmith
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For a dramatic portrayal of the Irish Potato Famine, I recommend you watch the film "The Hanging Gale".
tommy
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Thanks. I have not heard of it and I like those sort of films which go into hitory even though they are disturbing.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
TonyB2009
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I don't know where you could get it, but The Hanging Gale was a good drama. Well worth watching.
Vlad_77
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Half-Irish here and VERY strong nationalist leanings here. While Protestants did suffer from the famine, I cannot accept the relatively benign attitude toward the British as expressed here by some people. Catholics did not have complete freedom as some have suggested, Britain was indeed a foreign invader whether or not it was sent by the Pope. Are we going to sweep the whole absentee landlord business under the rug? If Irish Catholics did indeed enjoy so many freedoms as some have suggested, then I find it curious as to why the Irish felt a need to initiate the Easter Uprising of 1916. Free people tend not to revolt. Curiously, the vote on Northern Ireland rejoining the so-called "Irish Free State" - how nice of the Brits to "recognize" Ireland's sovereignty BTW - was postponed with the promise by HMG that the vote would be held when The Great War ended. There was agitation for the vote in 1922 - four years after Armistice - and the British never allowed the vote.

The British systematically tried to erase Irish culture, customs, language from the country. Linguistically, Irish Gaelic is not an endangered language because of the natural course of fewer speakers of a given language but because of systematic measure taken by the Brits to forbid the speaking of Irish Gaelic. Thankfully there were pockets of resistance and according to the Endangered Language Project, there are approximately 44,000 speakers of Irish Gaelic and it is being introduced into the curriculum. Let's also not forget that until things "improved" for the Irish, a lot of evil was visited upon them. Henry VIII was as we know not at all enamored of the Roman Catholic Church and his wrath toward the Roman Church was expressed in the tragic Dissolution which also made its evil way to Ireland.

The cruelty of the Black and Tans has never been forgotten nor should it be just we should never forget the atrocities of the SS. People conveniently forget that the UVV - the Protestant counterpart to the IRA committed just as many - if not more acts of terrorism than the IRA.

Eamon DeValera sold out the efforts for a united Ireland spearheaded by Michael Collins and expressed in the words of poets such as Padraic Pearse. Collins is a hero and DeValera is a traitor. Fast forward to the later part of the 20th century and still the British would not relinquish its hold in a land where it clearly had no right to establish rule. Britain's reasoning? Northern Ireland provided a strategic foothold for Britain against foreign invasion. What a crock that is considering that the Republic of Ireland was neutral in the Second World War and it is questionable whether the retention of Ulster made any strategic difference to the outcome of WWII.

And the price for the Brits has been heavy. SO may soldiers assigned to duty in Ulster ended up with PTSD. The Bloody Sunday incident in 1972 is a strong indicator of Britain's consistent hushing of events and it was only recently - 2010- that PM David Cameron finally hinted at British culpability for that terrible day.

There is one and only one answer: the British must leave Northern Ireland and Ireland must be united as one country. I find it curious that all other countries under British rule are now independent of direct British rule. (Scotland votes this year whether to remain in the UK or declare its independence). But Northern Ireland still does not have that opportunity and still British soldiers patrol Ulster at great cost to themselves and to the British government.

Give a listen to this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAORbQPxu98

Slainte,
Vlad
balducci
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Quote:
On Mar 19, 2014, Destiny wrote:
Had to google - don't think I've ever drunk it [Dr. Pepper] but I do remember seeing it in a store once - there's a website sells a 12 pack for $15 and I see their warehouse or store is only 5 minutes from me but I already drink too much carbonated drink.

Apparently it never really caught on in your fair land ...

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/20......n-sydney

Years ago there was an advertisement on Australian television for the fizzy drink Dr Pepper which featured the Statue of Liberty uprooting itself from the Hudson and striding across the ocean floor before emerging between the Sydney Opera House and Harbour Bridge.

As water ran down the Torch of Enlightenment we cut to two blokes holding cans of Dr Pepper and looking up at the statue. One asks, “Waddya reckon?” His mate takes a sip and replies: “Yeah – you could get used to it.”

It was a cracking ad, and had Dr Pepper not tasted worse than cough syrup for Komodo Dragons it might have caught on like other American institutions – Coca-Cola, say, or I Dream of Jeannie.

We are wandering up to the mighty, storied Sydney Cricket Ground on a balmy autumn evening in Sydney Town, the sky several gorgeous if foreboding shades of purple and mauve, with the odd angry shot of blood orange. Bats – specifically the local grey-headed flying fox – flap through the skies, heading off to do what bats do, while 38,000 people converge on the latest American thing to arrive in Australia, namely the American thing – Major League Baseball, and the ball-game between the LA Dodgers and Arizona Diamondbacks.

...
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
Destiny
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I saw Marcia Hines singing The US national anthem before that baseball game on YouTube - absolutely sensational rendition. She came out here as a pregnant 16 or 17 year old for the first production of Hair - and stayed.
magicfish
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The protestant north doesn't want to join the Republic lest they be ruled by the church. Ireland should learn from France and separate church from state. Only then will there be hope for a united Ireland.
TonyB2009
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Vlad, where do I start? There are so many errors here.

VLAD
If Irish Catholics did indeed enjoy so many freedoms as some have suggested, then I find it curious as to why the Irish felt a need to initiate the Easter Uprising of 1916. Free people tend not to revolt. Curiously, the vote on Northern Ireland rejoining the so-called "Irish Free State" - how nice of the Brits to "recognize" Ireland's sovereignty BTW - was postponed with the promise by HMG that the vote would be held when The Great War ended. There was agitation for the vote in 1922 - four years after Armistice - and the British never allowed the vote.
REALITY
A vote on Home Rule was promised before WWI, but was postponed when war broke out. It was NOT a vote for Northern Ireland to join the Irish Free State, as the Irish Free State did not exist at that point. It was not created until 1921, three years after the Great War ended. There was no agitation for a vote in 1922, because the Irish Free State was embroiled in a civil war at that point. The question of a vote for Northern Ireland to join the Republic (no longer the Free State) did not actually arise until the Good Friday Agreement between the British and Irish governments in the eighties.

VLAD
The British systematically tried to erase Irish culture, customs, language from the country. ... Thankfully there were pockets of resistance and according to the Endangered Language Project, there are approximately 44,000 speakers of Irish Gaelic and it is being introduced into the curriculum.
REALITY
The settlers who came from Britain in the thirteenth through to the fifteenth centuries actually adopted Gaelic dress and the Gaelic language, becoming 'more Irish than the Irish themselves'. And Irish Gaelic is not 'being introduced into the curriculum'. It has been compulsory for all students through primary and secondary school (elementary and high school) since the foundation of the state in 1921. Although there are 44,000 speakers of the language, the entire country understands the language and most are capable of holding a conversation in it.

VLAD
The cruelty of the Black and Tans has never been forgotten nor should it be just we should never forget the atrocities of the SS. People conveniently forget that the UVV - the Protestant counterpart to the IRA committed just as many - if not more acts of terrorism than the IRA.
REALITY
It was the UVF (Ulster Volunteer Force), not the UVV. And Republican groups (Official IRA, Provisional IRA, Real IRA, Continuity IRA, INLA) were responsible for slightly more than twice as many killings as Loyalist paramilitaries during the civil war in Northern Ireland.

VLAD
Eamon DeValera sold out the efforts for a united Ireland spearheaded by Michael Collins and expressed in the words of poets such as Padraic Pearse. Collins is a hero and DeValera is a traitor.
REALITY
Michael Collins signed the Treaty with the British which ended the War of Independence in 1921, not Eamon de Valera. The Treaty established Northern Ireland, and created partition on the island. Collins agreed to partition. De Valera opposed the Treaty, and wanted a united Ireland, which was the cause of the subsequent civil war. You have got the sides of both men mixed up. Neither man was a traitor.

VLAD
But Northern Ireland still does not have that opportunity and still British soldiers patrol Ulster at great cost to themselves and to the British government.
REALITY
The British soldiers have not patrolled the streets of Ulster for a decade.

Vlad, you need to park your republican sympathies and learn the facts.

Slainte,
Tony
TonyB2009
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Quote:
On Mar 26, 2014, magicfish wrote:
The protestant north doesn't want to join the Republic lest they be ruled by the church. Ireland should learn from France and separate church from state. Only then will there be hope for a united Ireland.

Church and State have been completely separated in Ireland for more than a generation. We are a secular society. Our president is an open atheist.

There was a time, up to the seventies, when the church did wield an undue influence on the state. Those days are long gone. We have even removed our embassy from the Vatican.

The real reason most of Northern Ireland wants to remain part of the United Kingdom is economic; they would lose heavily if they rejoined us. So would we; we can't afford unity.
magicfish
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Interesting. Thanks for bringing me up to speed, Tony.
TonyB2009
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On Mar 26, 2014, magicfish wrote:
Interesting. Thanks for bringing me up to speed, Tony.

In fairness, twenty years ago you would probably have been correct.
magicfish
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I found this interesting: http://m.theweek.com/article.php?id=224916
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