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kimmo
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Quote:
On Mar 23, 2014, wwhokie1 wrote:
Quote:
On Mar 23, 2014, kimmo wrote:
Tom - I don't comment on threads in the Gospel section. Go there if you want to talk about God with like-minded people who will not challenge your beliefs.

It may surprise you that I recently lectured for the FCM here in England and they welcomed someone with opposing views.


Kimmo, I am impressed that they invited you, would have loved to have been there. Listening is an uncommon skill, listening to someone with opposing views is really rare. I took an English class in college which focused on debate and argumentation. One of our assignments was to take a controversial topic, state our position and then argue for the opposing view. The professor required us to genuinely try to defend the opposing position and rejected any efforts that did not truly try to defeat our own stated views. Some students just couldn't do it. They were incapable of challenging their own beliefs. I found it to be one of the most useful assignments I ever had in college, and helped me to look at opposing views differently. By the way, the professor was an atheist, I am not. I aced the class, I was her favorite student, she loved every paper I wrote, read one of my papers to the class as an example. Her position was that she didn't care what you believed, but know why you believe it. What she had no respect for was people who were too intellectually lazy to take a stand for something, or to have no reason for the stand they take. Challenge what you believe, know what you believe, and be able to identify the faulty, illogical arguments that people make. That is what she taught us. She was one of my favorite professors.


Thanks - a lot of my atheist friends thought I was crazy to go, but I had a great time and I sat in on the church service and all the Gospel lectures that day. I poked fun at religion and Christianity throughout my lecture and evening show and everyone laughed along with me. I made lots of friends there and I think we learned a little bit about each other.

There were a couple of things that disturbed me deeply, even though they seemed normal to the others attending, but on the whole I found it a great experience and wouldn't hesitate to go back.
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wwhokie1
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To try to go back to the topic of magic: I have done magic shows for both Jewish and Christian events. Depending on the situation and what I know about the group, I typically focus on just fun magic shows. Most religious groups prefer to do their own religious teaching, so that is not what they are bringing me in for. It is rare that anyone complains about such an approach, and if they want you to teach as well as do magic, I find that they make those expectations clear in advance. Then you can either agree or decline. Depending on the situation I will sometimes use a different presentation for a routine or two, in order to provide a "moral to the story" or "generic lesson". That lesson would be very simple, avoiding anything theological. It is so easy to offend someone that most times a strictly fun magic show works best and is what many want. Some religious groups won't care if you share their beliefs, they are just looking for entertainment, depending on what the meeting is about. So nonreligious performers shouldn't assume this market has no potential for them.
harris
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Harris Deutsch
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Nice!

Markets.

There is a business in Show Business. Smile Smile

hl deutsch
Harris Deutsch aka dr laugh
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Scott Burton
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The problem here has been that many secular organizations - such as schools and non profits - end up going to camp at bible camps and the camp directors try to inject a little religion into the mix. Why are these secular groups using bible camps? Because renting bible camps are cheaper. Why are they cheaper? Because camps run by religious organizations are TAX EXEMPT! We don't have a constitutional separation of church and state like in the USA (we are headed by the Queen after all). That tax exempt status makes bible camps very prevalent in our area and secular camps cannot compete. This makes the voluntary aspect less clear.
TomBoleware
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Quote:
On Mar 23, 2014, Mary Mowder wrote:
If someone asked if people were getting ready for Blue and Gold events I would not really expect a lot of talk about the Scouts politics in this forum.

I'd love to see more talk about Magic in a Kid's Magic forum.

I have a question though. Is the Magic you all do at VBS all or mostly tied into the church or is it mostly just a Magic Show?

If this is mostly about Christian Magic then there is a forum for that.

If it is a religious debate (again) then take it to "Not very Magical, Still…"

I'd like to see this stay here and talk about Magic.

-Mary Mowder



Mary, sometimes it's just a normal magic show or a balloon show. It's sort of a reward/treat for the week.
Of course if the magician hired is someone that does magic with a message, then they may be asked to include it too.

wwhokie1, said it well in the above post.

Tom
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NYCTwister
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During a recent break from posting on ALL internet forums I made a decision to only post if I thought I had anything new to add to the discussion or if I felt so strongly about the topic that I had say something.
This is one of those times.

As an atheist I have absolute respect for any ADULT to live their life in any way they like, on a COMPLETELY personal level so long as they don't harm anyone else's life on ANY level.

My problem with ORGANIZED religion(s) is that they don't show the same respect to others, despite their protestations to the contrary. It's been my experience that ALL organized religions rarely waste any opportunity to insinuate themselves, and their beliefs, where they , quite frankly, DO NOT BELONG.

This thread is a prime example. It was started while that ridiculous, congenitally doomed, thread was degenerating into the inevitable flame war.

While that thread was going on another theist attempted to start a thread here in the Little Darlings, where he asked his "father" to forgive him for his "sins". It was childish, insulting and disrespectful and I instantly reported it.

To state that the OP attempted to have the thread moved is, in my opinion, very dishonest and a prime example of a typical attempt at the above mentioned attempts to insinuate.

The OP is well aware of the "good news" section as he is a frequent poster there. If the religious wish to have their right to their beliefs respected then they should have the simple decency to respect the rights of others.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
Dynamike
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Quote:
On Mar 22, 2014, Harris wrote:
Anyone getting ready to work in VBS events?

Last year I did routines base on putting on the armor of ....


Harris

I do not have any on my list yet for this year. When I do recedive those gigs I always use Christian themes dealing with God and what He has done for all of us. I use the magic word "Prase the Lord" or "I love Jesus."
randyburtis
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I used to speak at camps for a week and would book 7-9 weeks at various camps and did that for around 10 years . I would create a theme with around 8-10 sessions that ran around 30 minutes. The magic part would fill 10-15 minutes of that time and the rest was stories,preaching,teaching and the tricks helped illustrate a spiritual truth or bible story.

For church day camps(or VBS) I have had two tracks. One is coming in to do a one off show to either open ot close the week, or they hire me for a 15-30 minute spot and would do a similar thing as with the camps. more often it was hte first option as VBS programs come with a fell week of teaching built into them.
Randy Burtis
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randyburtis
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I used to speak at camps for a week and would book 7-9 weeks at various camps and did that for around 10 years . I would create a theme with around 8-10 sessions that ran around 30 minutes. The magic part would fill 10-15 minutes of that time and the rest was stories,preaching,teaching and the tricks helped illustrate a spiritual truth or bible story.

For church day camps(or VBS) I have had two tracks. One is coming in to do a one off show to either open ot close the week, or they hire me for a 15-30 minute spot and would do a similar thing as with the camps. more often it was hte first option as VBS programs come with a fell week of teaching built into them.
Randy Burtis
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harris
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Harris Deutsch
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I made a mistake and originally posted this in the kid little darling section.

Thanks to the moderators for moving it.

Harris Smile Smile
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Donald Dunphy
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Now that it's been moved, I hope all of the anti-Christian / off topic posts get removed.

- Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
Jolly Roger
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Quote:
On Mar 24, 2014, Donald Dunphy wrote:
Now that it's been moved, I hope all of the anti-Christian / off topic posts get removed.

- Donald


Why? I am a Christian, but I think it is always good to hear views from every angle. Staying on topic, I do many shows for VBS, and I always tell the kids to keep an open mind about everything they read in the bible, as much is open to interpretation, especially in the old testament. I focus more on the message of Jesus being one of love, peace, joy and abundance. I never talk about judgement, and nor do I put fear into their little minds. It is my belief that is what God would want. I frequently get complemented by the teachers on the way I deliver the message. JR
Donald Dunphy
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Because, they aren't in line with topics of discussion on The Magic Café.

From a pinned thread, in the "When Dining with us" section:

Quote:
Steve Brooks:

Religion or Politics:

Though we do have an area for discussing subjects other than magic, the discussing of Religion (other then a real application as it relates to a magical effect Example: Gospel Magic) is strictly Prohibited. The subject is simply too subjective, and more often then not leads to emotional responses and a lot of hurt feelings and/or resentment.

Because the Café has a worldwide membership, Politics is another area that is best not tackled here. We are, after all, a magic website. The non-magic area is there for the discussion of lighter subjects, such as movies, best selling novels, etc.

Postings that do not comply will be removed with no reason given. No exceptions!


I know that you like religious discussions Roger. That is why you keep starting threads on the topic (that are getting locked or removed -- take a hint already!)

But religious discussions are different from Gospel Magic discussions.

- Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
harris
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Harris Deutsch
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Does anyone know the theme this 2014 summer?

Love and prayers

Harris Smile Smile
Harris Deutsch aka dr laugh
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randyburtis
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Group publishers has weird animals as their theme
Randy Burtis
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Jolly Roger
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Quote:

But religious discussions are different from Gospel Magic discussions.

- Donald


Not quite sure why, Donald. As I have stated many times, I believe there are many different interpretations of the gospel. I would therefore have thought this was a great place to talk about this. I have already stated what I do for VBS. What do you do, and is there a common ground where maybe our messages overlap? For instance, do you talk to children about judgment, hell, satan etc.? JR
Donald Dunphy
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JR -

Our belief systems are quite different, based on what you have shared in the past (in person and on this thread). But again, this is a different discussion from shows for VBS. Yes, I do talk about sin and the need for Jesus as our Lord and Saviour in my Gospel Shows. No need for a Saviour, if you have don't want to talk about sin, and don't need God's mercy and grace!

- Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
Jolly Roger
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Quote:
On Mar 24, 2014, Donald Dunphy wrote:
JR -

Our belief systems are quite different, based on what you have shared in the past (in person and on this thread). But again, this is a different discussion from shows for VBS. Yes, I do talk about sin and the need for Jesus as our Lord and Saviour in my Gospel Shows. No need for a Saviour, if you have don't want to talk about sin, and don't need God's mercy and grace!

- Donald


How very sad. JR
Donald Dunphy
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We also talked about sin and Jesus' sacrifice on the Cross, in our Sunday School class (I've been helping with Sunday School at my church for a number of years).

- Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
harris
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Harris Deutsch
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Last year my wife was one of the main teachers.
She asked me to talk about how Satan can trick us.

I started with a rope routine based on an old episode of Sesame Street.
1st I got a volunteer and a piece of rope.

I said here I have a nice piece of rope.
No one Ever FIGURES THIS OUT.

I will make this one piece MAGICALLY CHANGE TO 2 pieces of rope.
I give the scissors to my helper /silently indicate for them to cut and proudly declare
IT IS NOW 2 Pieces and NO ONE CAN FIGURE out How.
The kids scream you cut it.
No I say softly.
Then they get it and say ______ cut it
OK you caught me I wasn't truthful we did cut it.
That's a lie that really didn't hurt anyone.
God always tells us truth ...that's his nature.
Sat and nature is to lie.
The Truth is Jesus loves us. I can do magic tricks-rope visually and quickly restored.
Only Jesus does the Supernatural ...and now back to your teacher Mrs. Annie.
My wife Annie was also their Christian drama teacher at the school based at the church.

Love and prayers
Smile Smile
Harris
Harris Deutsch aka dr laugh
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music, magic and marvelous toys
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