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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Smooth as silk » » Duke's Dye Version Roll Paper (3 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Bill Hegbli
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Eternal Order
Fort Wayne, Indiana
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I have been looking for years for the shelf roll paper to be used with the Abbott's version of Duke's Dye Version. Duke Stern only used 12 inch x 30 inch sheet of roll paper, as he only used and published his version in the Linking Ring Magazine, because he used a 12 inch x 10 foot streamer. Abbott's Magic marketed their version with a 24 foot streamer, thus they said to use a 13" wide paper roll.

Totally by accident took a stab at using the old title on the remaining paper I had. I could not believe "Glazed" was the word always missing. I could never find the Royal company or brand. Tonight, was a lucky night. I found the Royal company with the shelving paper needed for the trick.

Here is the web address to purchase the paper roll at a very reasonable price. They still make it in color besides white.

http://www.theroyalstore.com/table-runne......_44.html

I hope this find allows many of you to be able to perform this trick as instructed by the Abbott's instructions.
Regan
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U.S.A.
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Bill,

Thank you so much for providing this link. I have been playing with this recently, and finding the correct tube is not easy! I have made some from place mats I found at Walmart that work fairly well, but I will try to g some of the shelf paper and see if it works better. I find the Abbott's streamer very difficult to get inside the tube. It is difficult to keep it in there also. The instructions provided by Abbott's say to use a tube approximately 1 3/4" diameter x 13" long. I find it impossible to get a 12" x 24', 8 momme streamer, plus all the other things inside a tube that size. Am I missing something?
Mister Mystery
Jimmy Joza
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That is helpful, Bill.

I sometimes use sheets from The New York Times since it is long. Only preparation that I did was to glue blank newsprint on the inside to avoid getting any kind of smudges on the silks. I use five, 18 inch diamond cut silks and they make it seemed like they were squeezed in there once produced. I sometimes tore the newspaper into 3 or 4 pieces or would roll out up into a ball and toss it to one side so the the newsprint on the inside was a non-factor.
"Those who simply walk in others' tracks leave no footprints."
Bill Hegbli
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Fort Wayne, Indiana
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I can get it all in with only a inch or so left with the nonfunctional Abbott's gimmick. I am having good success with the Rice medium size gimmick instead of Abbott's nonfunctional gimmick. Abbott's gimmick is only about 1-1/2", and Rice's is 1-3/4". Whichever you use, just roll it around the gimmick loosely. I also use a rounded ends bamboo chopstick and use it for loading very tight.

Jimmy, the message is an important part of the trick when unrolling the sheet. This also provides additional cover for some large productions if used as a finale to the act.
Jimmy Joza
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Quote:
On Mar 23, 2014, Bill Hegbli wrote:
I can get it all in with only a inch or so left with the nonfunctional Abbott's gimmick. I am having good success with the Rice medium size gimmick instead of Abbott's nonfunctional gimmick. Abbott's gimmick is only about 1-1/2", and Rice's is 1-3/4". Whichever you use, just roll it around the gimmick loosely. I also use a rounded ends bamboo chopstick and use it for loading very tight.

Jimmy, the message is an important part of the trick when unrolling the sheet. This also provides additional cover for some large productions if used as a finale to the act.


Hi, Bill. Yes I am aware of that and sometimes I write "Happy Birthday (name of child)" when I do it as the final routine. But sometimes I use in a different way. Thanks again for that link.
"Those who simply walk in others' tracks leave no footprints."
Regan
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Quote:
On Mar 23, 2014, Bill Hegbli wrote:
I can get it all in with only a inch or so left with the nonfunctional Abbott's gimmick. I am having good success with the Rice medium size gimmick instead of Abbott's nonfunctional gimmick. Abbott's gimmick is only about 1-1/2", and Rice's is 1-3/4". Whichever you use, just roll it around the gimmick loosely. I also use a rounded ends bamboo chopstick and use it for loading very tight.


Thanks Bill. I use a 'plunger' too and load the streamer extremely tight...tight enough that it wants to 'jump' out. I have tried various methods of loading the streamer but I just cannot fit it acceptably inside a 13" tube. I roll it loosely around the the gimmick also, but its still not enough. If I allow the tube to swell a lot, then I can fit the streamer in easily, but it is more diameter than I am comfortable with. I am thinking that maybe the streamer will break in a little with use, but I have already conceded and made a longer tube. The 13" tube just won't work for me. I am using an 18" tube now and everything is still very difficult to get inside!

Jimmy's idea of the diamond cuts would help! Maybe the shelf paper will work better for me!
Mister Mystery
MagicalMotivator
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What I stumbled across a few years ago are smaller pre cut bristol board pieces from Staples / Business Depot - they come 4 to a pack and overall size is 11" x 14" with some very bright colours (you can also take a regular bristol board sheet and cut it into 4 - much cheaper) - very sturdy and great for printed messages - once it is rolled I DO NOT fold the edges to hold the gimmick (Abbott) in - instead I use a very large bulldog clip on the whole tube at the bottom while in my table - next 3 regular elastics to hold everything together - in operation the clip is easily and quickly used and it takes very little pressure to hold the gimmick into the tube (the most it might come out is 1/4" but very easy to hide and control - makes the steal at the end a real breeze - paper can be reused many times since it is so sturdy and holds the shape quite well.

I use a drum stick or wand to lead the streamer.

Hope this helps.

Rick
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bkmeyer
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I have noticed on several threads that those who use Duke's Dye Version love the effect. What is it about this effect that grabs your audience and what is it about the effect that grabs you (in addition to good routining of course)? I'm just curious since I like silk dying effects, but haven't really given much thought to this particular effect. Thanks.

Bruce
MagicalMotivator
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Packs small - plays really big - great for comedy audience interaction for kids, family or adult audiences - can customize a message at the end of the roll of paper

rick
Rick Rossini The Magical Motivator
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jeanboucher
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After reading this post I've decided to give it a try.

After receiving it from Abbott's, I've run down to so many problems...

I've tried different things…

I have experimented with finger painting paper without success.

Now, I am using White Butcher Paper Roll that I cut into pieces of 18 inches x 15 inches.

I couldn't fit the 24 foot streamer, so I've cut it down to 18.

Also, I've decided to use diamond cut shape silks (blue,red,green,yellow & black) instead of the one supplied.

I hope it help someone.

Jean
Magicien pour fête d'enfants

In my more than 25 years of doing magic, I have re-discovered that the most magical audiences are children. They make the best audiences because they don't hide their surprise, or joy, or happiness: all of which, my Magic show will bring to life.
Bill Hegbli
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Eternal Order
Fort Wayne, Indiana
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Quote:
On Feb 16, 2015, jeanboucher wrote:
After reading this post I've decided to give it a try.

After receiving it from Abbott's, I've run down to so many problems...

I've tried different things…

I have experimented with finger painting paper without success.

Now, I am using White Butcher Paper Roll that I cut into pieces of 18 inches x 15 inches.

I couldn't fit the 24 foot streamer, so I've cut it down to 18.

Also, I've decided to use diamond cut shape silks (blue,red,green,yellow & black) instead of the one supplied.

I hope it help someone.

Jean


Destroying props is never the answer. You should have posted your problems on the Café, or PM me. I could have helped you with all your problems.

First - you should have purchased the paper I referenced in my original post.

Second - you should simply used a chop stick or small wooden dowel to load the silk. I can load my streamer in about 1-1/2 minutes.

Third - I seen no reason to use Diamond silks, they look like rags. The 15" silks that come with the trick are a perfect fit.

Finally, if you care to use the original gimmick that Duke Stern used, Rice's medium size Dye Tube works perfectly.

Your advice is not helpful, but totally wrong to the trick. In my opinion, as I have presented the trick for 50 years as it is published.

Again, this a problem of the person blaming the props and not himself. Abbott's would not have been selling the trick for over 40 years, if was inferior.

I am so sorry to hear what you have done to a perfect trick. After presenting the trick for several times, I am sure you will kick yourself in the ***, for doing what you have done.

PM me and I will send you Duke Stern's original publication for free, so that you may see his own words.
jeanboucher
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LOL
Magicien pour fête d'enfants

In my more than 25 years of doing magic, I have re-discovered that the most magical audiences are children. They make the best audiences because they don't hide their surprise, or joy, or happiness: all of which, my Magic show will bring to life.
Darkwing
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I have encountered some of the same problems. I have followed the instructions that come with the trick with the following results;

The size streamer used with the recommended size paper puts a lot of pressure on the tube. I have tried poster board, drawing paper, etc. with mixed results. I'll keep looking.

I have also found the 15" silks barely fit the gimmick. I've had to go to 12" silk which I really don't like because of the size.

I've seen the trick done many times and really like the routine. I'll keep working on it.
hugmagic
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If you read David Ginn's book ( I can't remember which one offhand but it was an early hardcover book not a pamplet), it gives one of the better explanations. Remember you are not putting all 5 of the 15 inch silks in the gimmick; only four of them. The fifth is tied around the tube.
Tommy Windsor used 12' streamer when he worked in smaller venues. He also drew messages and such in the paper to be visible as it was unrolled.
Got to a full scale printer. He should have several different weights of paper in large sheets (24 x 36 or so). You can probably buy a box of the paper or at least 100 sheets and have him cut it in half and you will have lifetime supply.
The original gimmick was a Contetino tomatoes paste can. If the streamer is too tight in the paper, then get a longer paper.
To me a plunger dye tube defeats the whole working of the trick. Silk dyeing with a dye tube is an entirely different effect. This is simply a blending of the silks.


Richard
Richard E. Hughes, Hughes Magic Inc., 352 N. Prospect St., Ravenna, OH 44266 (330)296-4023
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Bill Hegbli
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Richard, Duke Stern's original instructions is published in an old Linking Ring Magazine. He used a dye tube, and if you think about it, the reason is simple. It allows the five silks to be put in the tube as well, then begin by pulling out the five silks from the tube. The Dye Tube then pushes the streamer up and allows the load to move into the tube where the five silks were.

I or no one said the trick was the dyeing of silks. Unfortunately, the gimmick is called a Dye Tube, it can be used in this case as a Blendo effect.

In my opinion, most the problems stem from using the gimmick as a guide for rolling the paper, as it should fit loosely. So using a guide that is just a little larger then the gimmick will solve a lot of the handling issues. Find a TT cardboard roll, or one of the many rolls for food coverings. This is a better guide when rolling the paper.
JNeal
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I use a heavy weight 12" by 24' streamer from Richard Hughes (very vibrant colors... And strong!) and have NO trouble loading it into a tube that is 8.5" by about 1.5" in diameter. I am rather surprised that any paper tube longer than 11" is necessary! it loads in a minute...maybe two minutes if I'm being slow about it!

I also have two of the Richard Hughes lighter weight 12" by 24' streamers that will fit into a just slightly larger tube of 12" by 1.75"... It holds nearly 50 feet! I think the lighter weight streamers of Richard's are about the same weight of the Abbotts silks, if I recall.
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Dick Oslund
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Bill's point about the paper tube being "loose" is important. Duke's routine most likely was a "spin off" from the Al Baker Dyeing Silks.

the same principle (loose) is needed for the Walsh Cane vanish in the newspaper.

When I did Duke's Dye Version, I had a slight "theatrical" problem. The 25' streamer, for me, became a "false finish". I made up the rolled "paper" from some "plastic shelf covering". (It lasted all season!) I had a sign painter paint A P P L A U S E in big letters on one side. It gave me a "real finish".

Some of the "good" things about Duke's routine is that it is simple and highly visual, It fills the stage! It's virtually angle proof. The set up (see J. Neal's post just above) is quick, and it packs small and light.

That shelf covering is no longer on the market. If I were to do it today, I would buy a window shade, and cut it to size. (That's what I used for the Mutilated Parasol, and it would easily last for a season.)
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Bill Hegbli
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Quote:
On Feb 18, 2015, Dick Oslund wrote:
That shelf covering is no longer on the market.


Dick, please see my reference on the original post at the top of the page. The shelf paper is available, still today, in limited color choices.
hugmagic
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Bill,
I understand what you are saying about the dye tube and respect your thoughts. I just think the weighted gimmick allows certain advantages over a standard dye tube. And tying the silk around the outside allows a little more cover for the get away.
To each his own.
The window shade is a good idea (especially if the neighbors don't mind look in). If you need a stiffer piece, scary it with 3M glue or something similar and laminate the two pieces together. That should stiffen it up nicely.
Richard
Richard E. Hughes, Hughes Magic Inc., 352 N. Prospect St., Ravenna, OH 44266 (330)296-4023
www.hughesmagic.com
email-hugmagic@raex.com
Write direct as I will be turning off my PM's.
Bill Hegbli
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Richard, if you don't know which dye tube I was referring to, it was the Rice Club Size Plunger Dye Tube, which is very heavy and drops nicely. It is only $10 currently, until Ruth can get someone to change the pricing on Silk King Studio website. Of course, I used the standard Abbott model for years, the Internet was not available for many years, and I did not stumble across Duke Sterns' original handling until some years ago.

I also like your idea on using roller window shade material for a permanent solution, but when I do kids shows, they always want the banner tube with their name on it for their birthday or special event. I do pull down the paper like a roller window shade and it all has some rhythm to the handling.

I use a black silk for my 5th silk and do tie it around the tube.
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