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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Fellowship of Christian Magicians! » » Why I am leaving the FCM » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (8 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Mike Maturen
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My membership is up for renewal at the moment. I have decided not to renew, and I thought I owed my fellow magi an explanation. To begin, let me say that this is NOT a slam against the FCM...I believe there are many wonderful folks that are a part of the organization.

However, as Christians, part of our commandment is to LOVE one another as Christ has loved us.

As a Catholic, I have not felt that love. I have been told I am not a Christian. This is not Christ-like behavior, and is not a good face for the FCM.

I wish you all the best, and know that your ministries will be in my prayers. May the blessings of Almighty God, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, rain down upon you and remain with you forever.
Mike Maturen
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Bryan Drake Show
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I get the irritation brother, but my question is how does it follow that some have called you a non Christian to then leaving the FCM?
Mike Maturen
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It is the un-Christlike behavior of calling a Christian a non-Christian, simply because you disagree with their beliefs. Seems to go against the spirit of the FCM to me.
Mike Maturen
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Terry Holley
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Quote:
On Mar 27, 2014, Mike Maturen wrote:
It is the un-Christlike behavior of calling a Christian a non-Christian, simply because you disagree with their beliefs. Seems to go against the spirit of the FCM to me.


Hi Mike,

Based on how you feel you have been treated by some because of your beliefs, I'm interested in what you think about the Council of Trent (Roman Catholic Church) anathemas that are directed toward people like me, including FCM members, who hold to some of those beliefs? As I'm sure you know, "anathema" is a very strong word.

Terry
Co-author with illusionist Andre' Kole of "Astrology and Psychic Phenomena."
robvh
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I understand your frustration, Mike. There's a mountain of ignorance out there about the Catholic Church. If everyone understood then we'd all be Catholic! Smile

Unfortunately, the more ignorant people are the more vocal they tend to be. If the FCM encourages or supports that type of behaviour, then perhaps it's best not to support them through your membership. However, if it's really a matter of a few individuals, then you might consider engaging them in dialogue in the hopes of correcting their misconceptions. If they refuse, then they'll likely back off because they're just full of hot air and little else. If they accept, then it becomes an opportunity.

We Catholics have nothing to fear from the truth and I've found that sincere dialogue can build bridges. Challenges from protestant friends have led me to study the Bible more deeply and have only helped strengthened my faith in God and my conviction that the Catholic Church is the church that our Lord Jesus Christ founded. Jesus is the head of the Church and we have His promise that the Holy Spirit will guide her.

God bless,
Rob
Steven True
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Mike
I am a Christian but know some Catholic people and they are loving and forgiving and very caring. I am not a member of FCM, hope to be soon, so I can't comment on what they say or stand for but you are on here a lot and I have learned a lot from your posts and feel so bad about this situation. I am sure you will do what you feel that you want to do in a loving and caring way. I am ignorant about the Catholic Church but this makes me upset. As Christians we ALL need to be uplifting and love and respect each other. Unfortunately not all follow that same attitude. I am no expert by any means. I just hope you will still come to this forum and keep posting as I have said, I have learned a lot from your posts. Stay true to God and he will guide you in all you say, think and do.

In Christ

Steven True
Mike Maturen
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Thank you for your kind words, Rob and Steven.

Terry: The council of Trent is a discussion too big for this forum (nor is it the place for it). I would be happy to discuss this via e-mail if you'd like. Narrow down the focus for me, perhaps suggesting one or two things that you have a problem or question about, and I will do my best to answer.
Mike Maturen
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jamiedoyle
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Mike,
Look mate: I call myself a Christian, but because of my Pentacostal heritage, involvement and ministry, I've been called non-Christian by many... even some FCMers... even by some of my own Catholic family. Others in the FCM, also because of their faith-tradition, have been called non-Christain - whether it be Catholic, Pentacostal, Seventh Dad Adventist or Jesus-Only Apostolic (I've talked to many of them). We are all going to get called "non-Christian" by other Christians. We really are just a bunch of imperfect humans making all kinds of mistakes.

I would ask that you explore what the LEADERSHIP of the FCM has decided as the standard for the orginization and go with that. If you are making your decision based on what others on this forum have said or done - then "Shame On Us" and we need to re-evaluate our motives for typing what we send into cyber-space for all to read. If you want to talk privately, message me and we will get the conversation started... if anything, I just want you to be encouraged.
Jamie Doyle

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Mike Maturen
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Thank you Jamie...

The encouragement shown by the few who have engaged in this conversation has been great.
Mike Maturen
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Rodney Palmer
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Mike,

I left the FCM many years ago as the Leadership simply said I did not fit in. I am a Christian but I do not believe in or have any Faith in the FCM Leadership Team. As I found over the years of attending if you ever went against the grain or challenged their so called authority they would make it clear that you are not wanted. There are only a few people I still associate with from the FCM. Until the Leadership Changes for the GOOD of all I will not come back. And at the time the President told me that he did not care if I ever came to another convention or was ever a part of the FCM. They have their own agenda and there are way to many cliques in the FCM. We are supposed to LOVE One another, Build each other up and not Tear a Fellow Brother/Sister in CHRIST down. I have seen this done to way to many people from the Leadership Team from the FCM and it truly rips me apart inside.

Rod
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Mike Maturen
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Thank you, Rodney, for sharing your experience. Be blessed, my friend!
Mike Maturen
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Terry Holley
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First, let me say that I'm not a member of the FCM, so I have no dog in this fight so to speak.

Second, I empathize with Mike, but I ask, "How close is this thread getting to becoming "gossip"?

That would be just as wrong as the other behavior.

I like Rick Warren's definition of gossip: “When we are talking about a situation with somebody who is neither part of the problem or part of the solution, then we are probably gossiping.”

Just satyin'.

Terry
Co-author with illusionist Andre' Kole of "Astrology and Psychic Phenomena."
Mike Maturen
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Nope, Terry...just stating the facts of my experience. I have not mentioned any names or identifiable situations...and that was on purpose.
Mike Maturen
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Joey Evans
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Mike,

The FCM has members from many denominations and many churches, just as Jamie said. The FCM is made to be an inclusive organization not an exclusive one. Anyone who says otherwise, has a chip on their shoulder and don't have the true heart of FCM in their actions. The vast majority of the FCM are wonderful people who I look forward to seeing each and every year. Many of which, when I go through something difficult, I can give them a call and have a fantastic friend in Christ on the phone no matter of their religious affiliation.
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Rodney Palmer
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@Joey,

Please STOP while you are BEHIND my Friend. I did not name names as I am trying to respect Mike's Post. I could name names but I will not do that. The FCM really does need some NEW Blood in Authority to Advance the Gospel of Our LORD and SAVIOR. They should not be hindering the growth of the FCM but Encouraging and Building each other up. I do not think that Mike nor I have a chip on our shoulder. We are speaking from experience and we are not the only ones as there are many who have left the FCM and many of them are very well known people. And Joey please check your own Heart are it is not right to assume people do not have a True Heart of the FCM. I had a True Heart at one time but I certainly do not engage in unorthodox practices that the FCM Leadership Team and other members are using. Who are you to JUDGE Mr. Evans?

Rodney
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themagiciansapprentice
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This is my second time of posting - hopefully this one won't vanish as well

the FCM has always been to me a family of like minded creative artists performing to spread God's . We all agreed to a three-point statement of faith when we joined. Like any families there are disagreements, that are settled not by resorting to a grandious statement on a public forum but with love.

I have twice flown thousands of miles from Asia and Europe to attend the International Convention (2008 and 2012) and attended the UK ones as well (2010, 2011, 2014). I've also attended over fifty meetings of the FCMUK. The question of denomination has never been raised.

Now Joey Evans is a member of the FCM International Board. I've meet him, performed at Late Night and value his words above.

Please explain to me then Mike, why you feel the need to knock an organisation that you barely part of (maybe for one or two years)? Did you ever attend a FCM meeting? Convention? When was the question of denomination raised? No-one has ever asked me. Instead, they've shared God's love and made me feel very welcome.
Have wand will travel! Performing children's magic in the UK for Winter 2014 and Spring 2015.
Mike Maturen
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Apprentice:

I do not need to explain myself to you. Nor do you need to judge me.

Obviously, if an FCM member claimed that I was NOT a Christian, then my "denomination" WAS, indeed, called into question. Even if the person in question (and out of love, I am not naming names) disagreed with my Catholic faith and didn't believe I was a Christian, who is HE to judge ME? Biblically, he has no right to do such.

Furthermore, if you re-read my initial post, and any of my subsequent posts, I never "knocked an organization" as you claim, but rather said that my statement was NOT a knock against the FCM. Perhaps you missed that part.

There are no FCM meetings anywhere near me. The conventions are WAY beyond my budget (as are almost ALL magic conventions). So, no, I haven't been to one. The incidents in question happened in both public forums and privately via email.
Mike Maturen
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Alan Wheeler
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I just found this statement of faith on the FCM website:
Quote:
I have received Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and Savior and believe the Bible to be the only inspired infallible Word of God. I believe that Jesus Christ was born of a virgin and He died on the cross as the only atonement for our sins; that He rose from the dead; that He ascended to the Father’s right hand in Heaven, and will one day come back for those who trust in Him. As a member of this Fellowship, I commit myself to: (1) reaching lost souls and encouraging growth in the body of Christ through the use of such talents as magic, ventriloquism and associated arts; (2) diligently be a more proficient performer with these talents; and (3) carefully uphold the code of ethics of the magic profession (related to exposure of magical effects and ideas).”


Quote:
On Mar 28, 2014, Joey Evans wrote:

The FCM has members from many denominations and many churches, just as Jamie said. The FCM is made to be an inclusive organization not an exclusive one. Anyone who says otherwise, has a chip on their shoulder and don't have the true heart of FCM in their actions. The vast majority of the FCM are wonderful people who I look forward to seeing each and every year. Many of which, when I go through something difficult, I can give them a call and have a fantastic friend in Christ on the phone no matter of their religious affiliation.


If this is the party line, then no problem. Catholics and Protestants seem to be equally welcome in the FCM, and only individual members should voice the historic differences and then only in appropriate settings.

It's most likely the case that some Catholics are truly Christian and that some Protestants are truly Christian--as well as some FCMers!

In essentials, unity.
In nonessentials, liberty.
In all things, love.
The views and comments expressed on this post may be mere speculation and are not necessarily the opinions, values, or beliefs of Alan Wheeler.
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jdstewart
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I joined the FCM several years ago. I joined the magic Café in 2008 specifically to participate in discussions with other FCM members. After my first attempt I stopped. In fact, this is the first time I have even logged back into the magic Café as you can tell by my number of posts. When I attempted to engage on an issue of style I experienced the same venom displayed here when others disagreed with my position.
I think we should all morn Mark's decision to leave FCM. We should morn it not because he is leaving but because he has pointed out our sin of hypocrisy. Lets assume Mark is not a Christian. (Sorry Mark only an illustration) Are we any less sinners? The venom on display here should make us say with Paul we are the chief of sinners. We do not love. We do not care. If you think you do, go back and read Romans 3:10-18. Rather than try to defend ourselves, let us grant the grace we so desperately need from Christ. Let us repent.
Mark my prayers are with and for you. Sorry to loose you.
Joey Evans
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Rodney,

I won't address the majority of your post as it seems to be filled with anger of some sort. I will however address the words of mine that you seem to have mis-interpreted and I apologize for that. As far as when I mentioned someone with a chip on their shoulder, I was talking about anyone that would degrade someone else's religion, a member of the FCM or otherwise. I wasn't talking about you as I didn't really even read your post above I was simply responding to Mike.

Mike, I just wanted to make sure you didn't misinterpret me either. I'm not sure what happened but whoever said something of that sort didn't have the true feelings of the FCM behind their actions. I've had some member say some hurtful things to me, but it happens occasionally anywhere, even at our own church. I really think the FCM has a lot to offer and I beg you to not let some ill-informed people keep you from it.
The Visual Comedy and Magic of Joey Evans

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