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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Fellowship of Christian Magicians! » » Why I am leaving the FCM » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (8 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Joey Evans
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On Mar 29, 2014, Alan Wheeler wrote:
I just found this statement of faith on the FCM website:
I have received Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and Savior and believe the Bible to be the only inspired infallible Word of God. I believe that Jesus Christ was born of a virgin and He died on the cross as the only atonement for our sins; that He rose from the dead; that He ascended to the Father’s right hand in Heaven, and will one day come back for those who trust in Him. As a member of this Fellowship, I commit myself to: (1) reaching lost souls and encouraging growth in the body of Christ through the use of such talents as magic, ventriloquism and associated arts; (2) diligently be a more proficient performer with these talents; and (3) carefully uphold the code of ethics of the magic profession (related to exposure of magical effects and ideas).”

On Mar 28, 2014, Joey Evans wrote:

The FCM has members from many denominations and many churches, just as Jamie said. The FCM is made to be an inclusive organization not an exclusive one. Anyone who says otherwise, has a chip on their shoulder and don't have the true heart of FCM in their actions. The vast majority of the FCM are wonderful people who I look forward to seeing each and every year. Many of which, when I go through something difficult, I can give them a call and have a fantastic friend in Christ on the phone no matter of their religious affiliation.

If this is the party line, then no problem. Catholics and Protestants seem to be equally welcome in the FCM, and only individual members should voice the historic differences and then only in appropriate settings.

It's most likely the case that some Catholics are truly Christian and that some Protestants are truly Christian--as well as some FCMers!

In essentials, unity.
In nonessentials, liberty.
In all things, love.

This is a great point. A person's personal walk with Christ is just that personal. If they sign that statement of faith, then no one should argue it no matter what. I have a friend in the FCM that is LDS, however, he signed that statement of faith and his personal walk is just that personal. Christ didn't bring us together to judge each other but to lift each other up in talent and in spirit.

If anyone believes Christ is their Lord and Savior there nothing more to do than rejoice with them and pray for His love and wisdom for both of us!
The Visual Comedy and Magic of Joey Evans

The Impossible Has Never Been So Funny!
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nope, simply said we have a three-part statement of faith and we all agree to - that's all the Religion that we need to agree on or to discuss

and personal matters are dealt with personally - the FCM are a family - I do not go and write about family issues on an open access forum - we sit down and pray - sometimes we agree to disagree, but do not try and tarnish our family
Have wand will travel! Performing children's magic in the UK for Winter 2014 and Spring 2015.
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The latter part of this sentence from FCM's statement of faith smells like Catholics aren't welcome by those in charge:

"I have received Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and Savior... and believe the Bible to be the only inspired infallible Word of God."

While I don't disagree with the statement about the Word of God, I do recognize as a Catholic the authority given by Jesus to the Church on matters of dogma (which never contradict the Bible nor Jesus' teachings just to be clear). Am I reading too much into it? What do the Protestants here think?
Stephon Johnson
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As with any organization that attempts to combine Christian faith with another outside interest, be it golf, rodeo or alligator wrestling; if members signed the "statement of faith" there should be agreement on at least those points. It is naive to think there aren't essential differences between denominations that align more with the Protestant Reformation than with the doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church. (After all, these differences cost many people their lives).
That is the rub with such an organization. It is a very difficult thing to pull off. The problem with strongly held doctrine or dogma that a follower regards as "essential" to faith, is whether you can or cannot overlook that obvious conflict and enjoy the "other" common interest anyway.
Some people cannot do that, and rightly avoid such membership. Some see the opposing doctrines as heretical, or an insult to God. Who's right, who's wrong?
One thing is sure: Both can be wrong, One can be right, but both cannot be right and also diametrically opposed. We have become very subjective about our views on truth in this modern day. We should be clear about what we believe, why we believe it, and exactly what God's word says about it.
But, we should be able to share that with love, and discuss our differences privately. That is a difficult thing to do, with such a strongly held subject!
WHAT IF you wake up tomorrow with ONLY the things that you THANK GOD for today?
Sam Sandler
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Mike- Ill still be your friend! Smile and I will love you even if you are wrong LOL joking!

the reality here is this folks. God created us to have fellowship with us. He loves his creation and we as followers of Messiah Jesus don't always get it right. what remains is this though. regardless of what doctrine you follow the end result is we must be working daily to have a deep intimate relationship with God thru Jesus and the Holy Spirit. and that we are not interpreting the scriptures to "fit" our needs or wants.

the FCM is a Family and as with all families we will have disagreements and sadly some will even go as far as to be down right mean to other family members.

But God knows our hearts and that is all that really matters.

Mike I can understand where you are coming from and I am sorry that a few have made you feel as an outsider and I hope I have never been one to do so.
whether you stay or go all I ask is that you continue to seek the lord and trust Him in all that you do. He loves you and He wont let you go...ever.

your friend

sam sandler- America's only full-time DEAF Illusionist
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Profile of BarryMitchellMagic
Many people have said some great stuff here so I'll just say . . . the problem with organizations of any kind . . . is the PEOPLE. There are some great people in FCM and many have become some of my best friends. There are also a few that I have NO DESIRE to get to know. But I can make that statement about every other organization too. As far as I'm concerned you should be welcome in the FCM. At least you are welcome in my little corner. It's a small corner but you're welcome. I have good Christian friends in all denominations and faiths. Nice thing about being a Christian is that at some point you had to admit to being a sinner, therefore we have to some times look over the ignorance of others. Smile
Danny Kazam
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Why did you think you owed us an explanation? This seems to be a personal issue with a couple of FCM members, rather than with the organization itself, no?

You say it's not a slam on the FCM, but then make a serious accusation that you are being descriminated against for being a devout Catholic. You brought this to the magiccafe, and I think more should be told. If there is discrimination going on, I believe we should know more details. Otherwise, it's gossip.

You've only been a member for a year. Never been to a convention, nor part of a local group means your issue surrounds the FCM forum, or at least the majority of it does.

The only time I have an issue with another Christian is when they constanty proclaim that their church is the right church. I know from our conversations in the past Mike, that you are a Christian.

I left FCM too, but the biggest reason for me was because I don't have a local FCM group, not enough gospel magicians to support a group. The conventions are to far away, which makes it more costly, especially with a wife and two children. I joined for the Christian Conjurer. Mostly every issue was late, and I felt I had to be patient and understanding. When the CC did finally show up, I began to loose interrest in it. I wasn't getting out of reading it anymore. So...therewas no point in me continuing my membership.

Mike, isn't their a Catholic magicians guild, or something like that?

On Mar 26, 2014, Mike Maturen wrote:
My membership is up for renewal at the moment. I have decided not to renew, and I thought I owed my fellow magi an explanation. To begin, let me say that this is NOT a slam against the FCM...I believe there are many wonderful folks that are a part of the organization.

However, as Christians, part of our commandment is to LOVE one another as Christ has loved us.

As a Catholic, I have not felt that love. I have been told I am not a Christian. This is not Christ-like behavior, and is not a good face for the FCM.

I wish you all the best, and know that your ministries will be in my prayers. May the blessings of Almighty God, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, rain down upon you and remain with you forever.
Keep your dreams alive. Understand to achieve anything requires faith and belief in yourself, vision, hard work, determination, and dedication. Remember all things are possible for those who believe.
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