I have always considered myself good at the Classic ****. I am watching Expert Coin Magic Made easy by David Roth and he can lay his hands flat with a coin in this position.Does anyone know any tips to help me along in doing this? I get close but still not quite.Winged Silver is not near as good unless you can lay them flat.

I wouldn’t worry about doing that. Not many folks can and it is actually not necessary at all. Most people keep their hand in a more natural position with the fingers curled slightly, curled slightly more at the pinky end than the index finger end.

I'm not sure how in the heck David Roth is able to flatten out his hand like that while classic palming a coin, but I don’t think that many can do it quite as well!

Good luck!

Jim

BTW, a fantastic resource is Dan Watkins's Foundations page at coinvanish.com. http://www.coinvanish.com/backpalm.html#......a%20Coin

Jim

Thanks Jim

Jim
The part about the little fold of skin has already helped quite a bit.Very good resource.

Frank

Try a larger coin. I can do things with an old English penny that don't work with a smaller coin. Also try using moisturiser on your hands; neat gelatin works well with coins.

Barry

Thanks Barry
I appreciate your help.
Noticing you are from England maybe you can help me with a slight problem....What is a half crown? Is it similar to a Half Dollar?.
Frank

Welcome to the Café, DF…

As Mac mentions above, though a neat move by Roth, keeping your hand flat like that while CP'ing isn't really necessary. I suppose it can be achieved if you keep practicing and reaching for that as a personal best, but again it's really not necessary. The heat should be off that hand and so as long as you don't look arthritic holding out the coin, then you're good…No one suspects that you are holding a coin in that way, which is the ultimate goal.

Interestingly, as to Roth holding a coin in CP with hand seemingly held flat…He once mentioned that it was impossible to CP a coin off a flat table top. I thought so too, until one day I watched a wonderful closeup magician and coin man, Mano Tejeda do exactly that. It's one thing to hold a coin and casually show your hand flatly, but quite another thing to pick a coin up off a table like that. Funny, the day Eric Jones showed Mano to me to see that great feat, David Roth was also there…I should've shown Mano to him. He makes it look as easy to do as Roth, doing something that actually is quite a bit more difficult to do. Try it and see for yourself. I'm just sayin'.

Again, welcome…

Half Crowns are just a little bit bigger than English Pennies, silver, have milled edges and have the date on the other side than the portrait.

Mb, Roth says in his dvds (or maybe a lecture; not sure) he used to believe it impossible to do that, but then he met a magician who could. So I suspect they did meet!

Thanks for all the help and the warm welcome guys.( and the very interesting stories)
Just a little insight about me...I have been practicing magic and especially coin magic for about 35 years on and off.I decided I liked coin magic after seeing Bobo several times as a school boy here in Texas.I thought New Modern Coin Magic had it all until my latest venture into the magical arts.There sure is a lot of new and incredible stuff out there!

once again Thanks Guys
Frank

I can flat CP a Morgan dollar sized coin on a table readily enough- but nothing smaller. It's actually much easier opening your hand fully with the table surface acting as a push against your hand than trying it sans-table. The table itself pushes the flesh at the base of your thumb and and pinkie together to aid in the action, making the process much easier than it looks. Like everything CP related, all this takes is a lot of practice. I personally think it's well worth learning to do, if used wisely and with some subtlety it appears impossible to be holding anything and can be a natural action if timed with doing something else with the other hand to not be an obvious demonstration.

I can't pick up a Morgan from a table with CP, nor even one of two stacked. I don't understand how someone could manage that!

In my opinion getting in and out of the cp unnoticed is the most important. If that is done well a hand held in a relaxed position works well.

BTW, the cp is a basic sleight. However, I remember a commercial for a game from the 70's or 80's "a minute to learn; a lifetime to master."

I agree completely. One of the most neglected aspects of coin magic, in my opinion, is the way we tend to focus on holds, and passes, but we tend to forget how important it is to be able to handle the coin "in transit" betwixt these better explained moments.

In the art of comics, we talk about what happens "between the panels". A great cartoonist is aware that his audience makes jumps in their mind between actions that are shown, and is careful to arrange what he or her shows in a natural and logical way that takes into account the "gutters" of the comics. It is as much a part of your story as what happens within your panels.

In movies too, a director will be well aware that he does not have to show everything on-screen...but that what he chooses not to show is just as important as what he does put on screen.

With magic, it is of utmoet importance to be able to masterfully handle the coins behind the scenes between various holds. What is known as "Fingertip Rest" and getting your coin/coins into and out of it from various other locales in your hand silently and efficiently is just as important as each hold or pass the magician makes.

In my opinion, the "Fingertip Rest",along with various clips, thumb balances, and other very temporal waypoints in the hand are at the crux of good coin magic. The subject is much neglected in the light of the glorious classic mechanics like CP; and it's a subject worth more discussion.

Marion mentions here and in a few other places how Mano is able to classic palm a coin off of a flat tabletop, and David Roth actually saw Mano do this. I finally asked David about this, as I didn't think it was possible. David told me how he talked to Mano about this, and Mano never classic palmed a coin off of a tabletop, nor did he ever claim to do so. He instead uses a different method that I can not explain here to accomplish what LOOKS like he is apparently doing that. I don't know Mano, these were David's words, not mine. However, using his method (which I think he calls the Mano Lift) he is able to accomplish the move. It just doesn't use classic palm.

Thanks for the further background here Doc. I have always reported what I saw and how it was presented to me. Eric Jones told me about Mano being able to "Classic Palm" a coin right off a table, and after introducing us at a Magic Seminar long time back now, Mano did just that, and while twirling a deck of cards in the other hand. It was all quite amazing to me, still to this day as I remember it.

Since, as you basically say here, it looks just like what it is said to be, I had no reason to think otherwise. And yes, I have mentioned this many times on this forum. Happy that you checked further on it with Roth. I do not know the workings to Mano's "Mano Lift" but if it helps him to achieve something that looks like what it looks like/what it was said to be to me, then that's quite spectacular in its own right. Perhaps yet another wonderful move to be explained in your hopefully, "Encyclopedia of Coin Sleights II."

This is one of those nice little sidebars in magic, one of those little stories that get told over and over again, the stuff of legends even…I'm happy to be a part of it somewhat with such notables. Perhaps Mano can clarify all this for the better edification of us all one day, or perhaps just let it ride.

Roth says right on the DVD that it's not the most natural position and he's just doing it to show us what is possible with enough practice.

Foolish showing off aside, the serious student will have already considered that the Mano Lift permits a moment in Roth's winged silver not possible otherwise. Shhhh .
And bravo, ManoT

My intent is to lay my hands flat to cover the coins at the moment of transposition only....before lifting them.It seems as if the spectators would be scrutinizing both hands equally at this point and at this particular point the hands would be flattened to cover the coins..