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Mb217 Inner circle 9683 Posts 
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On Apr 15, 2014, Magnus Eisengrim wrote: Well, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree here.  Not sure what makes you think that Frank might've been doing the effects wrong or not well enough? Actually most hecklers don't really care how well you perform. They just like calling people out and selfishly ruining things for others. They get a real kick out of it, and or are just selfishly callous as to others. If you like "figuring things out," then go do a math problem in school, then raise your hand and yell "ooh, ooh" until the teacher calls on you. 
Honestly grim, It seems like you might've misunderstood the OP here and then the further background later given as to the matter???...It wasn't that Frank made mistakes but that a kill-joy (There to help children) just had to show his mental superiority at the expense of sick kids enjoying a good moment. Do you see no difference??? Frank was not there to learn anything from a heckler in that environment. He wasn't performing for people and doing sleights so badly that a spec yells out "I can see the other coin in his hand, or I see the two cards held together as one." That very well might've been a lesson for Frank to learn the hard way as to being tighter. But that's not what happened. Anyway, I appreciate your comments.
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic
"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb 
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vinsmagic Eternal Order sleeping with the fishes... 11030 Posts
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Go to security and have them escorted out
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AaronSterling Veteran user 319 Posts
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On Apr 15, 2014, vinsmagic wrote: In case anyone reading this doesn't understand how poorly this would play out: It's vital that you win against the heckler under your own power. The audience wants to see you succeed, and especially to succeed against all odds. What could be more magical than that? This doesn't mean that you have to put down the heckler, the way most standup comedians would. Maybe you neutralize the heckler, get him on your side. Remember how Arnold Schwarzennegar handled the heckler who threw an egg into his face during his gubernatorial campaign? He said he wanted to sit down and talk with the guy, hear what he had to say. That he didn't think getting hit by the egg was a negative at all. It was a demonstration of a liberty the US had that many other countries did not. Whatever one might think about his politics, that's five star heckler management, right there. Winning the heckler over becomes even more important in this specific case, because the man is an authority figure to the kids in the room. If the magician puts down the authority figure, he'll become isolated from his audience. So it's critical to get the whole room working together as a team. |
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Ray Haining Inner circle Hot Springs, AR 1907 Posts
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We're dealing here with an adult heckler at a kid's show, which is probably a very rare situation.
Why should I try to get a heckler on my side? On the contrary, the idea is to get the rest of the audience on your side and against the heckler. They will take care of the heckler, who are usually people with severe emotional problems. The Schwarzenegger case was more situation management than heckler management. Schwarzenegger gets to look good, magnanimous, "Christian"--or rather "Christ-like." And I'm glad to hear we have the liberty in this country to throw eggs at politicians. Try it sometime. See what happens. |
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AaronSterling Veteran user 319 Posts
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On Apr 16, 2014, Ray Haining wrote: I think the answer to your (rhetorical?) question depends a lot on the aspect of yourself that you are exposing to the audience, and your primary technique of audience control. But I don't think the general situation is as rare as you do, and I think it's going to become increasingly common in the age of the internet. I was performing at an extended family reunion, and a respected older uncle got it in his head that believing in magic was bad, so he was trying his best to bust me on every move. After he made a few of my hand transfers, I focused straight at him, and vanished a coin using an edge concealment. So it was a move that was baffling when seen from straight ahead, but that I on purpose flashed to the majority of the audience. Suddenly, everyone knew how the trick was done except for him. I paused a beat, then said something like, "These are all tricks, and there are secrets behind the tricks, and it can be fun to see those secrets. But on the whole, I think it's more fun for everyone if we build a sense of mystery together." He didn't talk for the remainder of the show, and he didn't get all red in the face either. Maybe he stopped because I "beat" him, or "isolated" him, but I'm pretty sure it was more because he could see that people on the whole prefer to enjoy the moment and be fooled. Anyway, I'm not saying that particular tactic would work for anyone but me, in that special situation. But I think your response to my post oversimplifies a complex subject. |
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts
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On Apr 15, 2014, Mb217 wrote: I was talking about your response, not Frank's. I am hired to entertain the people in the room, not the people I wish were in the room. Quite recently, an elderly woman pointed out that I was holding out an object in my left hand. I don't know how she knew, but she did and she pointed it out. She didn't do anything wrong; I did. Even though I'm not sure how it happened, it is nobody's fault but my own. I'm not about to psychoanalyze this woman (who, let us remember, was one of the people I was hired to entertain), but I am carefully going over the routine to minimize the chances of it happening again.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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Mb217 Inner circle 9683 Posts
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Well grim, I was responding to Frank's encounter and then your response to my response, or something like that.
Basically, I don't know what you don't agree with that I said…I re-read what I wrote and now doubly agree with everything I said.
Anyway, in that moment with that elderly woman, perhaps you were indeed doing something wrong (Or maybe not, who knows?) to be called out like that. But back to the point here, there is a difference as to what I was saying. The volunteer that was exposing Frank's performance was out of line, especially as it pertains to children in those instances. It's a lot like a much older brother telling his kid brother that there is no Santa Claus. With that, I would say, that the volunteer in the children's hospital was out of line. *But I'm guessing that basically you agree that indeed the volunteer was out of line…correct? You just didn't agree with my response back to Frank on it? Now, the woman that snapped at you may not have been out of line but still very much a heckler as to outcome, no matter if she was right or wrong, or you did something right or wrong. I still say these sorts of people "can't get right" and show an inappropriate behavior in such social settings. Sorta like people people rudely chatting during a movie. Anyway, that you consider it to be perfectly alright for people like this to do this and place the fault with yourself or any other performer that encounters this, is somewhat odd to me. Finally here, I stand by what I said from the beginning as to all this but respect your opinion. Hope you respect mine.
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic
"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb
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Shy Regular user 133 Posts
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On Apr 16, 2014, Ray Haining wrote: I partially dissagree, I don't think that hecklers are "people with severe emotional problems", they just don't like to be fooled, from their point of view: the magician is a trickster and wants to fool them and wants to make people think that you have supernatural powers or something. So, the hecklers wants you to fail and make you look bad, that gives them an "im better than you" feeling and feeds their ego. But I think that just with a little talk any heckler will stop. I have a friend that the first time he saw me doing magic he was trying to figure out what I was doing, I was using iforce (a very good prediction app from greg rostami !), he then asked me to let him open the app when revealing the prediction, luckily iforce has 3 different methods so I could escape from that. After all that we had a little talk, I won't get into details but the point is that he never did it again once he understood. I think it's very important the way you introduce yourself so the hecklers doesn't feel challenged. -Daniel |
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts
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As I noted above, we often walk a fine line. With sucker vanishes, for example, we want someone to point out that they saw what we did. How in the world is the spectator to know the difference?
Mb217: full respect. I prefer when spectators behave how I want. I just refuse to believe that there's anything wrong with the person who doesn't. It's like being a teacher: you have to teach the kids who show up, no matter who they are.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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Mb217 Inner circle 9683 Posts
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Well, we both give good examples, because there's nothing good (or to be in the realm of acceptable behavior as to hecklers) about an older brother telling younger kids that there's no Santa Claus (That would be sorta like exposure, wouldn't it?)… And yes, a teacher has to teach the kids who show up, alright. She has no choice in that and should try to be the best teacher she can for all the kids. Though in eventual results, she will show to have been a better teacher for some, than for others.
I think we have illustrated our individual points well enough, and I know we both understand each others position, even if we don't necessarily agree. Like I don't agree that there's nothing wrong with the person that is inappropriate in a specific setting, especially like the one that sprung this whole discussion - quite basically, hecklers are inappropriate for the most part. I know that whenever I run into these sorts (and I have) these people are mostly always as I described them, give or take. Not that they aren't intelligent or trustworthy, or caring or whatever, just that they are doing something that is incongruous to the moment at hand, and oftentimes it is disruptive, and even not nice. It doesn't matter to me that they maybe aren't aware of it or even if they callously deliver who they are at the expense of everyone else, because ultimately it doesn't add to the overall interaction, it subtracts from it. I've handled these sorts before, and that's about what you have to do, "handle them," and I guess all of us do it differently and may feel differently about it. I'm sure Frank here has gotten a lot of good guidance from all the opinions given, even if all the opinions given don't quite agree with one another, and that should be OK, too.
Anyway, good talk just the same, and also, much respect.
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic
"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb
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Shy Regular user 133 Posts
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HEY, wait a minute! what do you mean by saying that there is not santa ! >:(
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Ray Haining Inner circle Hot Springs, AR 1907 Posts
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There are different kinds of hecklers.
There are "exposers." Some exposers expose tricks they already know about. It has nothing to do with the performer. Think invisible deck. There are exposers who figure out how the trick is done while it is being performed either because they are clever or because the performer has done a poor job. These two may lead one to re-examine the tricks they are performing and how they can be improved or should be dropped all together. There are so-called "exposers" who THINK they have figured things out, but really haven't ("it went up his sleeve"). Then there are those who just want to disrupt the performance. One time there was somebody in the audience who would just repeat everything I was saying. This is the type I was referring to when I said that it is best to let the audience take care of. Eventually, everyone told him to shut up. In all cases, I believe these people are jealous of other people getting attention and are therefore lacking in confidence in themselves and have emotional (perhaps not severe) problems. |
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harris Inner circle Harris Deutsch 8834 Posts
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Sometimes heckling (and bullying) comes from a sense of too much power, confidence and entitlement.
Harris still with palms of steel for a lighter touch in coin magic 
Harris Deutsch aka dr laugh
drlaugh4u@gmail.com music, magic and marvelous toys http://magician.org/member/drlaugh4u |
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SD Houston New user Billings, MT 61 Posts
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On Apr 16, 2014, Magnus Eisengrim wrote: True, you do have to teach all of the kids there, but if one begins getting out of line and you just accept that as his right, it disrupts the ability to learn for ALL of the others. You have to put a stop to the one bad apple before he spoils the bunch, so to speak. I haven't had a chance yet to deal with hecklers as a magician, but as a musician (we don't get much in the way of 'hecklers') I was playing a show with my band at the time. After one of our songs, after a great, noisy applause (more like excited yelling and whistling), one of the guys near the stage shouted, "Man that song was !@#$%^& lame!". Well, he turned and left to probably go get a beer or step outside to smoke. I noticed a couple of guys turned and followed him out. As I found out after our set, those guys went outside and - sad to say but proves a point - they beat him severely. God I love punk rock! I don't generally condone this type of behavior, but it goes to show that regardless of skill level and a flawed performance or lack thereof, most people want to enjoy the experience. Hecklers ruin that experience for the others. The others get offended and upset. This is not acceptable. Ask yourself this...would you like it if you're enjoying an awesome action flick at the movie theater and someone kept yelling out, "That's just CG animation!" or "That guy's being held up by strings!" Hell no, you'd turn around and tell the guy to shut his f'ing piehole! The heckler may have a 'right' to be an a-hole, but he has a responsibility to have some common decency and respect for the others in the audience. I love stand-up comedy. I've been to countless shows. Hecklers at these shows are the bane of my existence. I've had words with a couple of them myself - no fighting, I promise lol.
The art of anything is taking the time to learn everything
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts
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[quote]On Apr 17, 2014, SD Houston wrote:
Quote:
On Apr 16, 2014, Magnus Eisengrim wrote: True, you do have to teach all of the kids there, but if one begins getting out of line and you just accept that as his right, it disrupts the ability to learn for ALL of the others. You have to put a stop to the one bad apple before he spoils the bunch, so to speak. [quote] Of course you deal with it. But your obligation to that child continues. Quote:
I haven't had a chance yet to deal with hecklers as a magician, but as a musician (we don't get much in the way of 'hecklers') I was playing a show with my band at the time. After one of our songs, after a great, noisy applause (more like excited yelling and whistling), one of the guys near the stage shouted, "Man that song was !@#$%^& lame!". Well, he turned and left to probably go get a beer or step outside to smoke. I noticed a couple of guys turned and followed him out. As I found out after our set, those guys went outside and - sad to say but proves a point - they beat him severely. God I love punk rock! Let's separate a few issues. In the OP the situation was that someone was shouting out what you are doing. As a professional you need to deal with it. But, as a professional, you are there to entertain, not to discipline, punish or judge. You have to make the best of the situation. The more extreme case (which does happen, mercifully rarely) is when a guest is truly obnoxious and/or abusive. This is completely different. No amount of management or professionalism will stop the drunk who grabs you, your stuff, or whatever, and makes performance completely impossible. In cases like this, the magician is completely correct to stop the show until the host takes care of the problem.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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Dollarbill Inner circle Colorado 1027 Posts
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I'm usually a talker and (in the past) have tried to get the heckler on my side. That attempt is purely based on experience and (magician) personality which is different with everyone right? As people perform more and more your patter will get "broke-in" to adjust to A situation. Having your ba11s busted by anyone just sucks at any time but there are ways to win.
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daniel116 Regular user 196 Posts
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I think that a lot of times, heckling comes from lack of self confident, the guy heckling you feels like he will be seen as a fool or whatever if he doesn't catch you, or maybe he can't stand watching someone else getting all the attention. So what I do a lot of times, when being heckled by someone, is avoid any behavior that might suggest that I'm challenging this guy, and also perform directly to him, instead of ignoring him. I mean, the jerk's going to continue heckling you no matter what you do, some people are just like that and you can't change them, so now that you're performing directly for him (while allowing everyone else to watch obviously) you've over come one obstacle in the way to a fun performance.
Now, the second thing he's going to do is call out things like "it's in the other hand!", then what I do is perform VERY basic routines that don't require too much attention from the audience, as I know he's gonna cut me in the middle and ruin the flow, so I do short routines with "sucker" elements incorporated into them, one that I really like is doing a "coin through hand" type routine with a french drop and a rub on the back of the hand, then I'll say that I'm going to do it again (cause he's gonna wanna see it again, so I'll offer it before he gets the chance to demand it), now I do a spider vanish and rub the back of the hand, and now instead of the coin penetrating the hand, it's gone! and I'll say something along the lines of "oh, some times it gets stuck... you gotta hit it!" and hit the hand while loading the coin there. That's a really quick routine that I do to throw hecklers away and it has yet to fail me. Confused? not a prob, I just shot a quick performance of the idea outine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1m0hHgP9l-k&feature=youtu.be Now, after the last phase of the routine (the re-appearance of the coin) there will be laughspeople applauding and at this point I will false transfer the coin and get ready for the next trick, when you false transfer an object on an off beat moment, when people aren't burning your hands, nobody even notices that a pass has been made and you can move to your next routine, when a heckler is in the crowd I will try to do something that doesn't involve a lot of vanishes and is as visual as can be, a coin through glass for example: finish the routine above, everybody laugh, I then grab an empty glass and say "it goes through glass as well!" and let it drop from classic palm to the glass while holding it and pretending to toss it through the bottom of the glass. |
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Ray Haining Inner circle Hot Springs, AR 1907 Posts
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Different strokes for different folks.
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Rolyan Special user I'm fencing in my land; so far there are 590 Posts
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On Apr 20, 2014, Ray Haining wrote: Exactly. Interesting to hear about 'Schwarzanegger'; when our deputy prime minister in the UK (John Prescot) got hit in the face by an egg during a walkabout, he punched his assailant on the jaw! All hecklers are different and everyone will deal with them differently. I've three responses 1) I ignore them 2) I agree with them 3) I give them a child's small lolley from my pocket and say "well done, you're very very clever". |
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daniel116 Regular user 196 Posts
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So yesterday I was at an open stage stand up night and some guy in the audience was heckling one of the performers, the performer tried to be cool with him but the guy just didn't stop, so the performer told him "well, you're wearing a Nirvana t-shirt and a flannel shirt over it, you're basically Kurt Cobain, so I think it's only fair that you'll finish the night with a shotgun to the head", that was hilarious.
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| The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Nothing up my sleeve... » » Hecklers or exposers during coin routine (50 Likes) | ||||||||||
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Posted: Apr 15, 2014 10:24 pm 
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