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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Gaffed & Funky » » A little discouraged by the Kennedy Mind Power Deck (5 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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lcwright1964
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This is not a cheap effect, but impressed by my local magic store owner's demo of it--I was fooled, completely--I splurged on it after thinking about it for a few days.

In trying it out (probably without enough practice) on my spouse, I flubbed the weeding-out questions. Her choice was 2C, which means that the maximum of four questions needed asking (in this case colour, low/high, club/spade, even/odd). She lost patience with the fishing and told me her card before I could reveal it. I was disappointed in this and wanted to try the trick again. This time she looked a little to closely and the trick's secret jumped out at her.

The is the second most I have spent on a single trick (the most was on Jon Allen's Rule of Three, which kills), so I really want to rehabilitate my approach before I try it on real humans outside the home. So I am keen for guidance. Moreover, I would be interested to know about performers getting "caught" by people looking too closely, and how you handle it.

Thanks in advance,

Les
Chessmann
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Best advice I can give on this is to read carefully and follow carefully John Kennedy's instructions, which I found very good.

Also, really have your mind appear to be very engaged as you're fishing - as if things really are being transmitted to you. Also, don't take too long - in other words, if you're losing your spec, step your pace or focus or energy up Smile

There is a YT video of Derren Brown performing this, where you will see him give a nice subtlety or two that will eliminate a couple of the possible choices before the fishing even starts.

It is a great effect - don't give up on it. You really have to know it inside out for it to be effective.
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
lcwright1964
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Quote:
On Apr 29, 2014, Chessmann wrote:
Best advice I can give on this is to read carefully and follow carefully John Kennedy's instructions, which I found very good.

Also, really have your mind appear to be very engaged as you're fishing - as if things really are being transmitted to you. Also, don't take too long - in other words, if you're losing your spec, step your pace or focus or energy up Smile

There is a YT video of Derren Brown performing this, where you will see him give a nice subtlety or two that will eliminate a couple of the possible choices before the fishing even starts.

It is a great effect - don't give up on it. You really have to know it inside out for it to be effective.


Thank you! Where I fell down in the trial with my wife is that I did not phrase the questions in a confident leading way that anticipates a "YES" response. That was my problem--I seemed wishy-washy, and probably came off as though I didn't have a clue and she wasn't going to wait. I realize now that I should start off with "Your card is Red" and be sure to assure the spec that once we hit the first No that if we get to another No there will be no further fishing and I will name the card because the algorithm means I can by that point. I was asking, "Is it Red or Black? High or Low? Club or Spade?" and never got to ask the Even/Odd one.

I will look for the Brown video. Thanks for your consideration.

Les
Steven Keyl
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Presentationally, the fishing questions can be further hidden if you have a couple of people thinking of cards. For a great example of this look at Richard Osterlind's presentation of the Radar deck. Different gimmick but the fishing procedure is easily adapted to the Mind Power deck. And of course Chessmann's advice is excellent as well.
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Count Lustig
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Quote:
On Apr 29, 2014, lcwright1964 wrote:
Where I fell down in the trial with my wife is that I did not phrase the questions in a confident leading way...

In this type of effect, you're not supposed to ask questions; you're supposed to make statements.
lcwright1964
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Quote:
On Apr 29, 2014, Count Lustig wrote:
Quote:
On Apr 29, 2014, lcwright1964 wrote:
Where I fell down in the trial with my wife is that I did not phrase the questions in a confident leading way...

In this type of effect, you're not supposed to ask questions; you're supposed to make statements.


Indeed. It became clear to me that the decision algorithm demands that semantic structure. I should not have typed "questions"--rather, I meant declarative statements that imply a question in that they seek confirmation or refutation.

I have to say I am having no success finding that Derren Brown vid. The one possibility is now a dead link.

Cheers,

Les
lcwright1964
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A helpful PM sent me to the Brown performance and it is awesome. Brown subtly throws out a guess of KD but the spec doesn't pic up that the the fishing has begun. In the vid, the guess is right (statistically it is best option) and spec is gobsmacked. This is the strongest outcome. If it were wrong the performer has less fishing because one option has been eliminated without the spec catching on.
rjbullock
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I do the MP DECK all the time and it works great... Usually I use two people and ask one to think of a red card and one to think of a black card to eliminate the possibility they will choose the same card... Of course, what this really does is reduce each person down to just four cards... Then I say, "You're thinking of a black... Oh, I'm sorry! RED CARD... So, just visualize the card in your mind... If it were the king of diamonds, try to see the king's crown, visualize his highness clearly..." If you get some sort of reaction from the spectator say, "Um, you're NOT thinking of the King of Diamonds, right? No, I didn't think so. That would be too easy!"

It's little ploys like this that really make the MP deck a killer tool. You'll work out your own over time. I will tell you, for whoever reason, the 10 of Hearts is by far the most often selected red card followed by the King of Diamonds and then the 3 of Hearts... 8 of diamonds is almost always last to be chosen, I don't know why. With blacks it's 4 of Spades, 7 of Clubs, Jack of Spades (which I eliminate similarly to KD) and finally 2C.

I can't tell you why the cards are most often chosen, it just works out that way. I wonder what others hit rates are for specific cards?
orchid666
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I've just started re exploring this deck, and I'm loving it! I used to use it for one effect only ( it wasn't 'smoke!' ), but now quite a few years on, I can see it's potential properly.
Totally agree with the above statements too. I can reveal the card with almost no questioning at all now. ( with the mentioned above ideas, and something Jim pace worked on, seen in his 'mental card stab' routine). Pm me if interested.
I will start coming up with uses for this deck. I think it could create miracles!
K
J Christensen
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Great information in this thread. I'd add that it's harder to fool a spouse who is so tuned into your inflection and body language. I know, I've been there. Also, a spouse views a trick in a very different way than people expecting to enjoy a magic performance.
Open up your mind
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By far the best fishing procedure for this is Bob Farmer’s in the bammo brain bamboozler. It is very clever indeed.
Bob Farmer
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Open up your mind
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You could also try using Wayne Fox’s 5221, which eliminates all fishing processes. Probably the best gimmick I know for revealing a thought of card that is currrently on the market. It’s a similar method, but the particular cards used in the system are chosen such that no fishing is required.
Bob Farmer
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I watched the Wayne Fox video and it is true there is no fishing involved--that's because he simply asks the spectator what the card is and then reveals the spectator has cut to that card. I have no idea what the method is but I suspect it involves a multiple out and a limited range of possibles.

This is a completely different effect than telling the spectator what his card is.
Open up your mind
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That is indeed true, but even if you do a pure card reveal it still takes less fishing. I’m not saying that Bob’s effect is bad, it’s about what you’re after. Without giving it away, it works in the same manner as the Koran deck in terms of possible thought of cards and is arranged in 3 clumps of 2, meaning it requires just 1 bit of fishing if you wish to reveal a thought of card, and no fishing if you wish to cut to a thought of card.
Bob Farmer
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If it is three clumps of two, that's 6 cards. If using a binary fish, that would take one question to get to 3 cards and another question to get to two cards and then another question to get to 1 card. If using majority fishing, it would take a minimum of one question and a maximum of five. So, I don't understand how one question could nail the card.
Open up your mind
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6 cards is what I meant by ‘like the Koran deck’ It is because of the specific cards used. It is hard to explain without revealing the method, but I suppose this will only make sense to those who already have the Kennedy deck: there are 2 cards high, 2 cards middle, 2 cards low. We can gain access to whether their card is high, medium or low with just one question, and then by using the DB ploy or somesuch we can gain knowledge to their card. Bob - I am not trying to do down your genius routine, I am merely using the Café as a resource to lead fellow mentalists to what I believe to be the best option. I will say this: Because I have 5221 I tend not to use the bamboo brain bamboozler for this, but your work on majorital fishing is something that has become invaluable to me, and I would recommend the bammo brain bambloozer to any budding mentalist, even if they do not have the Kennedy mind power deck.
Open up your mind
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Forgot to mention, using some clever ideas from Wayne you don’t even need to outright ask if it is high, low or middle value.
Bob Farmer
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No problem--I was just trying to understand the one-question method. One other thing, I prefer to not talk about questions or statements. The real issue is this: how many responses does the spectator have to make to get the card? The response can be to a question or a statement or an action the spectator takes (e.g., picks up half with his card). So, a better way to analyze these sorts of effects is to find out how many responses are required. Sometimes in the description of these sorts of effects, there will be a claim about "no questions" when the method requires making statements. That's why knowing the number of responses is the better analytical tool.

Real mindreading would require no responses to know the card. Fake mindreading always requires at least one.
Open up your mind
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2 responses. But as my memory serves me there are also more than 1 responses in the bammo brain bamboozler? Once again, I highly recommend both of these, I’m merely trying to say this:
1. If you want to do effects such as those made possible with the Kennnedy mind power deck, get 5221
2. If you want an invaluable idea which is as vital to a performer as a swami gimmick, get the bammo brain bamboozler
3. If you already have the Kennedy mind power deck, get the bammo brain bamboozler
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