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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
He was a great gym teacher.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
So I heard. (But I thought they were making fun of him originally and only later did they become friends.)
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Quote:
On Jul 4, 2014, mastermindreader wrote: This guy was a great artist! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0umr1SE2M8M
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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MobilityBundle Regular user Las Vegas/Boston 120 Posts |
[Balducci said: Benjamin Graham's books are wicked old. GM responded: But their teachings were gleaned from experience.]
GM, your wires appear to have been crossed a bit. One fork of this thread went into the wisdom (or lack thereof) of the teachings of academics. That's separate from pointing out that the value (or lack thereof) of teachings of those in the distant past. Balducci's criticism appears to have been in the latter category. Your response appears to be in the former category. Said more explicitly, sometimes experience trumps all. For example, observations made by Newton were synthesized into useful laws that still work today, hundreds of years later. Sometimes experience is fleeting. For example, I might have learned about a restaurant a year ago that served consistently excellent, cheap food. If I were to recommend that restaurant to someone today, I might be wrong. Maybe the restaurant closed up shop, or there was a change in management or cooking staff, the upshot of which is that now the food is no good. When it comes to investments, are insights gained before the 1940s still applicable? Are such insights immutable like the laws of physics or fleeting like which restaurants are good from one moment to the next? Perhaps reasonable people can disagree, and it depends on the particular insight under discussion. So rather than judging an idea from the context in which it arose, discuss the idea itself. |
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General_Magician Special user United States 707 Posts |
That's ridiculous. I got my money invested following the advice of the Intelligent Investor. I have made money. His advice works if you study it and follow it. It's worked for me so far. I think people like to criticize just for the sake of criticizing. If I follow the advice of Benjamin Graham and I am making money following his advice, I can't see how my wires are crossed in any way. If you are making money, you are doing something right and your wires are not crossed. Benjamin Graham's advice from the recent edition of "Intelligent Investor" has worked thus far. "If it's stupid but works, it's not stupid." -Murphy's Laws of Combat
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown
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MobilityBundle Regular user Las Vegas/Boston 120 Posts |
I'm saying your wires appear to be crossed based on your response to criticism, not the fact that you're making money.
But to be sure, the fact that you're making money following Graham's (or anyone's) advice isn't necessarily a complete defense of the advice. If you could be making more money (with other things, like associated risk, being equal) then the advice is probably bad. And one must always be wary of the aphorism that a broken clock is right twice a day. All in all, it's tough to measure. However, if you're consistently making returns that you're happy with, and returns that fit into a sensible set of financial goals, then more power to you. Doesn't matter if the way you accomplish that is by reading Graham or reading tea leaves... if it works for you, that's all you can really ask for. |
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General_Magician Special user United States 707 Posts |
Sure is a lot of data backing up Grahams advice and his advice works well for me even if it is wicked old advice. I'm not somebody who is quick to criticize or ignore the advice of the old timers. In most cases, the old timers have turned out to know what they are talking about. I also do not seek to get rich quick nor will I allow my investment strategy to be governed by greed. I prefer to be patient and make my money over the long term. So far, I have been making money, but it has also taken time. The money I made from my investments didn't appear instantly but over a course of time and so far it has far exceeded inflation as well. But again, the money I have made thus far did not appear overnight after making my investment but slowly and gradually over time.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Quote:
On Jul 8, 2014, General_Magician wrote: Not necessarily. If the market returns 20% one year and you make 2%, you're making money, but quite possibly not doing anything right.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
If you are making 20% and could be making 22% is the advice good?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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MobilityBundle Regular user Las Vegas/Boston 120 Posts |
Quote:
On Jul 8, 2014, General_Magician wrote: To be sure, we haven't really talked actual numbers. A lot of people are skittish about discussing dollar amounts, but how about rates of return? What kind of returns are you seeing, say, on an annual basis? |
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General_Magician Special user United States 707 Posts |
Right now, on my company match, I have close to a 10% (but not quite 10%) return and I only get one company match a year and so it was matched at the beginning of the year when it received. The company match is deposited into a non-Roth 401(k) provision given that the non-Roth 401(k) provision is tax deferred and my company receives a tax deduction for matching me. On the Roth 401(k) provision, it's hard to measure the exact return because that investment is salary deferred. So every time I take a profit distribution out of my company, I put a portion of each distribution into the Roth 401(k) provision. I also pay quarterly taxes on my profit distributions. So sometimes with my salary deferred part of the 401(k) (which is simply taking a portion of my profit distribution and investing it) I buy when the market is up and sometimes I buy when the market is down. It has seen a return as well, but the salary deferred portion has been invested later on and a little more recently than my company match, so the company match has had more time to earn money. However both the Roth 401(k) and the non-Roth 401(k) provision are invested in the same fund that I chose.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown
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General_Magician Special user United States 707 Posts |
The take away that I have when comparing the company match vs the salary deferred portion of my investments, the company match has done better even though it has less money invested than my salary deferred (both parts are invested in the same fund of index funds). It shows, that time and patience pays off and that time is important. The return has outpaced inflation and increased the money's purchasing power as well. So, it shows that the buy in hold strategy in my case (which Graham advocates) pays and the more time it's invested without it being touched, the higher the return. It's not a "get rich quick" scheme of any sort as I am certainly not rich at all despite my investments. My investments is a fund of index funds which is well diversified across stock and bond indexes in both the US and internationally. Even on down market days, sometimes the fund produces a return rather than a loss for the day (though not always). The bulk of my returns have come from simply being patient and the more time passes, the greater the return. Here recently, the US stock market has not been a bear market, but again, my investments are diversified across international stock and bond indexes as well as US bond indexes within that particular fund of index funds.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
GM, is the employer who is matching your contributions different from your magic business?
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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General_Magician Special user United States 707 Posts |
Quote:
On Jul 8, 2014, landmark wrote: Nope. The match comes from my magic business. The match is not a match per se, but rather profit sharing. So, I only get a match, only if the company makes money for a particular tax year and the match only gets deposited once per tax year. So every time I make a salary deferred contribution that comes out of my share of profits, doesn't mean I get a match. The match only comes once a year and only if the company made money the previous tax year (this is usually deposited at the beginning of the new tax year).
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
I'm assuming the match gets made for the total of what you've deposited that year into your IRA.
I guess I'm not clear how this benefits you differently from just putting in twice the money into your IRA since it's all your money to begin with. Is there some kind of additional tax break?
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
I don't get it either landmark.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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General_Magician Special user United States 707 Posts |
Quote:
On Jul 8, 2014, landmark wrote: Nope. The match is based on a percentage of how much my share of the company profits was made the previous tax year and then once a certain percentage of my share of the profits is calculated (for example, 5% of my share of the profits from the previous tax year), it's deposited in a non-Roth 401(k) provision and my company is gets a tax deduction in the year the employer contribution is made. In my case, I have a Roth 401(k) provision for my salary deferred contributions that come straight out of my profit distributions and then the company match goes into a non-Roth 401(k) provision. So the company match gives me more money for retirement, reduces my company's taxes because the match is a tax deduction AND you can contribute WAY more money to a 401(k) than you can in an IRA PLUS in my state, according to my attorney, I have a better level of asset protection of my assets in 401(k) than I would with an IRA at both my particular state and federal level of the law. I can contribute something like $17,500 to the salary deferred portion of a 401(k) in any given tax year PLUS the employer match can contribute something like an additional $30,000 or more. Far far more favorable than the IRA's 4 or 5 grand contribution limits and the IRAs don't have the same level of asset protection that a 401(k) has. Vanguard charges a $20 administrative fee once a year per fund per 401(k) provision (account) so that's why I chose to go with a fund of index funds, so it keeps that cost down and yet I am still invested in several different index funds for diversification purposes but only being charged for one fund per 401(k) provision. Other brokers charge much more than $20 a year per fund per 401(k) account. Some I hear charge hundreds of dollars which is quite expensive. Vanguard doesn't charge anything on their IRAs (there is much more government oversight and regulation of 401(k) accounts versus Roth or Traditional IRAs from my understanding) but your contribution limits are small, PLUS your company can't benefit from a tax deduction when it comes to a company match and it doesn't have the same level of asset protection that a 401(k) has. But you will want to have a certain amount of money invested as soon as possible in the 401(k) so that you can make up for the $20 cost and still make money and outpace inflation and increase your purchasing power even after paying the once a year $20 administrative fee cost per fund per 401(k) provision (in my specific case I have two provisions,the traditional 401(k) for company match and the Roth 401(k) for my salary deferral and the investment earnings in the Roth 401(k) are tax free for a qualified distribution or I could simply in the future roll it over to a Roth IRA and make qualified distributions from there).
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown
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General_Magician Special user United States 707 Posts |
Landmark,
I am also not the only shareholder in my company but I am the controlling and majority owner shareholder as well as the Manager of the company (LLC CEOs are called Managers in the law). It's good to have shareholders in an LLC for business and personal asset protection purposes, but you need shareholders to have the best asset protection using LLCs as well as selecting the correct taxation of your LLC which is best suited for asset protection purposes. Things can also vary state to state governing LLCs. LLCs are good for protecting your business assets from any lawsuits filed against you outside of the operation of your business and they are good to use in conjunction with contracts to protect personal assets from lawsuits that occur during the operation of the business and with a well written contract, written by a good attorney, the plantiff can only sue your company but not you personally (absent a contract they can sue both you and your company though). But if your business is sued, you can simply take out most of your business assets and distribute it to the shareholders (LLC shareholders are called members) but leave just enough in the LLC to keep it capitalized, that way the plaintiff doesn't get hardly any of your company assets (it also depends what kind of assets your company has too though which might require a different legal setup). You will need to hire a good attorney to set it up correctly per state law and it's a good idea to consult with an attorney who specializes in business law as well as asset protection. 401(k)s are great for asset protection as well as investing in for retirement but this also depends on your state when it comes to state level lawsuits. Plan for the worst, hope for the best. Sometimes being ready for the worst prevents the worst from happening because then your assets aren't easy targets. If you got insurance like I do, they might have an incentive to sue to cash in on the insurance, but there is no guarantee the insurance company will be there for you either given they are infamous for getting out of paying so you want to plan for that too, which means, having an LLC is a good idea as well as contracts with that LLC written by an attorney. Practically speaking, there is no getting away from the attorney. Pay them now or pay them much more later. There is no getting around seeing an attorney.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown
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General_Magician Special user United States 707 Posts |
Also it's probably a good idea to never name your retirement assets as a security for any loan, then your retirement assets might not have any sort of asset protection in that particular case (but otherwise, depending on applicable state and federal law you might). All in all, consult an attorney in your state. I am not attorney so it's best that you consult an attorney for your state and who specializes in the aspect of law you have questions on or are interested in for your particular case.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
Thanks for explaining your reasoning, GM.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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