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magic123
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Can anyone help me , do you need a permit to street perform .
if so , whould it be from city or who Exactly ?

appreciate any help

m123
Dave V
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The best answer you're going to get here is "it depends"

You'll have to ask around. Not necessarily from the Police or City Hall, their answer is usually "no" just to get you out of their hair.
Find other street performers. Buy them a drink or lunch. Make friends with them. Then ask them.
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
troppobob
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Crescent Head Australia
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G'day m123

You may find it helpful to check the local authority on line by googling something like "Town/city - busking permit". I have found that this will often give you the info you need. The permits if required are usually related to each local area - EXCEPT in some places where there are separate authorities for certain areas like harbor side and parks - and of course there are issues with determining public from private land.

In London where the Big I is located is great spot to busk with lots of performers having a go(Ferris wheel on the river Thames)- it is pretty crowded and just next to where every one is walking is a graet open park with grassy little rising sections next to paths - you could perform there and have no trouble drawing a audience from the passing crown - but I was warned not to perform there as it was banned and no one even had a go.

Anyway like Dave said ""it depends".

Bob Latta (aka Troppo Bob)
imgic
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Here's a site that has some info...may be outdated...

http://www.buskersadvocates.org/saabooks.html
"Imagination is more important than knowledge."
Paddy
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Milford OH
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Just do it!! The worst that can happen is a cop tells you to stop. Whenever I travel I busk where ever I am been told to stop a few times but usually the police don't care or they just check my ID and say "have a nice one, good luck." Smile
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ed rhodes
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Rhode Island
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Quote:
On Jun 9, 2014, magic123 wrote:
Can anyone help me , do you need a permit to street perform .
if so , whould it be from city or who Exactly ?

appreciate any help

m123


Providence, RI; you need to go to City Hall and get a printed license. In ONE case, having the license didn't help as the police officer claimed the license was; "at the descretion of the police" and his "descretion" was that he didn't want me there. Oddly enough, when I complained at City Hall, they told me that he'd caused so much trouble on Thayer St. that he was being transferred. Another policeman told me that my license was only good for one year and it had "expired." (When I got the license, they told me at the time that it "didn't expire.") I got a new license printed up which actually says; "does not expire."
"There's no time to lose," I heard her say.
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"Dying all the time, lose your dreams and you could lose your mind.
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imgic
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Quote:
On Jun 10, 2014, Paddy wrote:
Just do it!! The worst that can happen is a cop tells you to stop. Whenever I travel I busk where ever I am been told to stop a few times but usually the police don't care or they just check my ID and say "have a nice one, good luck." Smile



Paddy's advice if best..,
"Imagination is more important than knowledge."
Yellowcustard
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I have learnt 3 things regarding this,
- Google- Busking regulations in ----,
- Learn the law, This is different to regulations, A private company can have a regulation that breaks the law. Now don't get in to arguments but it is good to know a bit. I had a security guy say 'you cant do that,.' I said oh sorry I thought I could but I go, see I thought I could here because it council owned and your a private company looking after that shopping mall which I am not effecting' I then also say that I will contact the mall and check this out and sorry I got it wrong. This point he said well if you keep it small and quite he turn a blind eye for now. But choose your battles carefully.
- It better to beg for forgiveness than ask for permission. Some contries I would not try this in but most give it ago.
Enjoy your magic,

and let others enjoy it as well!
augiemagic
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I miss the days when Chance was on here and would jump on this conversation...

The following applies to the U.S.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Busking_(U.S._case_law) says a lot. In a nutshell, anywhere that's public property that people have the right to express themselves in any other way is fair game, according to the constitution.

A few notable passages:

"Busking cannot be prohibited in an area where other forms of free speech are not prohibited."

"In the United States any form of regulation on artistic free speech must not be judgmental, and permits must not be so restrictive, complex, difficult or expensive to obtain that they inhibit free speech. It is also unlawful per federal court decision for law officers to seize a performer's instruments."

"Busking is legally considered to be artistic free speech and clearly not panhandling or begging."

Really, read the whole page. And the source material.

I'm with Paddy on this one. Just do it until they tell you to stop. They're less likely to tell you to stop if you don't roll in with a giant amp and fire show though.
JoeJoe
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Quote:
On Jun 11, 2014, augiemagic wrote:
I miss the days when Chance was on here and would jump on this conversation...

The following applies to the U.S.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Busking_(U.S._case_law) says a lot. In a nutshell, anywhere that's public property that people have the right to express themselves in any other way is fair game, according to the constitution.

A few notable passages:

"Busking cannot be prohibited in an area where other forms of free speech are not prohibited."


I certainly don't miss the misinformation Chance brought to the conversation.

Busking is not an absolute right, cities can very much legally regulate the time, manner, and place (which is what 'permit' systems are designed to do). In a nutshell ... that sentence you quote says they can ban busking if they ban ALL speech. So if they ban people from handing out leaflets, they can also ban people from busking.

Read it again closely ... "where other forms of free speech are not prohibited" ... that means a city can legally ban a gay pride parade if they ban ALL parades. But they cannot ban a gay pride parade if they allow the Shriners to parade.

There is a name for a test the courts will use for this - I can't recall at the moment, I'll try to find time to look it up - little busy, full-time on the pitch again.

-JoeJoe
Amazing JoeJoe on YouTube[url=https://www.youtube.com/user/AmazingJoeJoe]
silvercup
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You either have freedom or you don't.
Free Speech cannot be prohibited.
Why?
If there is prohibition there is no freedom.

So the question is does Busking fall under the mighty umbrella of Free Speech?
A. Yes, it does.
Because I say so?
Nope.
Because Judges have said so repeatedly.

So that means one can busk in any town's public square, park, etc. in the U.S.A.?
Not so fast. You see towns, cities, burgs, etc. can pass any restrictions, regulations, or laws they want and enforce them. They do not need to follow the Constitution.

Hold on a minute you say, that's about wrong!
Yes it is, and until someone goes to Court and stands up for their right to Free Speech it continues.
You see when someone does take the time/expense to do so the Judge will take a look see at what them other Judges I mentioned before did, why they did it, and do the same because it's not complicated.

"But but where I live you can't have this and can't do that when you are busking."
Yep. Them judges have decided that WITHIN REASON, certain controls can be applied because other people have rights too.

So the deal is conduct yourself in a manner that is consistent with your surroundings, get to know what's what and who's who around you, don't make major waves, and you'll spend less time thinking/worrying about "can I" and more time making people smile and shower you with appropriate praise.
imgic
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Ah...Chance...there's a name from the past. Wonder how he's doing with his lawsuits...

While I advocate for busking, I've also said one must look at the environment and take it into consideration. If you're busking in front of store and your crowds disrupt their business, guess what...they're going to take action to do something about it. If your pitch is in an area where panhandleing has increased and is disrupting business...the business owners, residents, and government will take action. I saw that happen on State Street in Madison, Wisconsin. Then beggars were getting very aggressive..getting right into your face demanding change. They passed ordinance stating you couldn't directly ask for money, which killed busking there. Not sure what buskers can do to prevent or turnaround increased aggressive panhandling...but it impacts the pitch.

Lastly, a point I'd argued with Chance in the past...busking may not be considered free speech. You are seeking to engage in a business transaction. You are providing a service (entertainment) in exchange for money. The busking business model is a bit different...you wait until after services are rendered to then get paid...and you allow your customers to determine the rate. But basically, it's a business deal. At which point it is subject to regulation.

I don't believe busking should be regulated...I'm just pointing out the logic that may be used to justify regulation...
"Imagination is more important than knowledge."
silvercup
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Quote:
On Jun 12, 2014, imgic wrote:

Lastly, a point I'd argued with Chance in the past...busking may not be considered free speech.


Did Chance ever ask you to site a case where busking was not Free Speech?
If not I'm curious enough to ask if you know of one.

Quote:
You are seeking to engage in a business transaction. You are providing a service (entertainment) in exchange for money. The busking business model is a bit different...you wait until after services are rendered to then get paid...and you allow your customers to determine the rate. But basically, it's a business deal. At which point it is subject to regulation.



Except that courts again, repeatedly, have ruled that Busking is Free Speech.
Now if you put on a show and REQUIRED people to pay even if they decided how much, that would be a business transaction, pay for services rendered.
As it is we are out there with no, absolutely no, assurance that we will walk away with anything but experience.

For your logic to work the court would have to rule that Bob who watched the show and fed the hat was in a business transaction where Ted who watched and did not address the hat, well, was not.
The exchange of money does not a make it a business transaction, again not me saying it, Judges have.

I think who initiates the exchange is the deciding factor. If you initiate by requiring compensation, that's a business transaction. If the observer initiates, by free will feeding the hat, that's Busking.
imgic
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Nope, I cannot site a case...but I haven't spent anytime researching it.

Regarding your logic on busking and business...very sound. I was just bringing up points of discussions I have had with business owners in the past. Had not thought of it from your angle. (Boy I wish Chance had been as calm and rational as you presented...we would have had much better discussions)

I'd agree with you on earlier post:

"So the deal is conduct yourself in a manner that is consistent with your surroundings, get to know what's what and who's who around you, don't make major waves, and you'll spend less time thinking/worrying about "can I" and more time making people smile and shower you with appropriate praise."

And trying to work with local businesses instead of interfering will go a long way.
"Imagination is more important than knowledge."
JoeJoe
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Quote:
On Jun 12, 2014, imgic wrote:
Lastly, a point I'd argued with Chance in the past...busking may not be considered free speech. You are seeking to engage in a business transaction. You are providing a service (entertainment) in exchange for money. The busking business model is a bit different...you wait until after services are rendered to then get paid...and you allow your customers to determine the rate. But basically, it's a business deal. At which point it is subject to regulation.


Busking is a combination of "street performing" and "soliciting" ... Chance wanted to ignore that fact. To the best of my knowledge, there is no law against doing a card trick on the sidewalk in any city in the USA. It is the "soliciting" part they get you on. Sometimes obstructions of traffic or whatever, but I find it is most soliciting.

Nearly all of the court cases people cite on "busking" are where the city tries to carve out some special "exception" for "buskers" - the reason they get shot down in court is the reason I cited a few posts up ... they can't give buskers a special exception that they don't give to everyone else.

A very solid "constitutional" system is Ocean City Maryland, a "solicitors permit". Everyone must have one - girls scouts to sell cookies, non-profit groups to collect campaign donations, lobbist groups to solicit signatures, homeless people to "spare change", as well as us buskers.

-JoeJoe
Amazing JoeJoe on YouTube[url=https://www.youtube.com/user/AmazingJoeJoe]
silvercup
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Busking is not solicitation. Solicitation involves product and services.
When I busk I offer no product nor a service.

Busking is not peddling. Again no product or tangible item.

Busking is what it is. Expressing one's self in the public domain. That people, of there own free will, offer to compensate doesn't change it.

Nothing Constitutional about forcing a person to have a permit to express themselves.

I believe the major rub Governments have with busking is that there could be money exchanged and they have no way to tax it. If it can't be taxed it must be stopped. Big Brother wants his cut man!
JoeJoe
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Quote:
On Jun 12, 2014, silvercup wrote:
Solicitation involves product and services.


No, it does not. Soliciting is asking people for something. A "no soliciting" sign means you can't ask people to sign a petition, to take a flyer, sex, or for anything else. If you hat your crowd, you are soliciting.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Solicitation

Quote:
so·lic·it (s-lst)
v. so·lic·it·ed, so·lic·it·ing, so·lic·its
v.tr.
1. To seek to obtain by persuasion, entreaty, or formal application: a candidate who solicited votes among the factory workers.
2. To petition persistently; importune: solicited the neighbors for donations.
3. To entice or incite to evil or illegal action.
4. To approach or accost (a person) with an offer of sexual services.




-JoeJoe
Amazing JoeJoe on YouTube[url=https://www.youtube.com/user/AmazingJoeJoe]
silvercup
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Criminal law uses different definitions.
Solicitation, to my limited understanding and experience, in criminal law leans towards a commercial element. That's why I mentioned a tangible object or service, none of which is part of my show. Works the other way too as I've been shut down in places where it is required to have a tangible thing to exchange for compensation.

Now the question is can a person busk and not solicit according to Joe Joe's terms?
Why of course! So Busking does not = Solicitation.
Yehoshua
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Nope, JoeJoe is right about this... Too many performers get the "show" but not the "business" end of things. If you use hat lines, put out a har or bucket, or anything of the sort, you're asking, even if just subtly, for money. When you go to a concert, do you always walk away with something in return, other than the experience? Nope. Sometimes you just go to have a good time...but it is still "services rendered."

And let's be honest....you're not really out there "just for the experience" either. Otherwise you wouldn't be arguing busking laws in the first place. That's how the judge/cops look at it. Just sayin'.

I'm a busker, and I believe people SHOULD have a right to make a living using any talent they've got! I also believe a city has to find a means by which they can keep 50 fire acts from throwing torches around on their wooden boardwalks...So you've gotta understand where they're sometimes coming from.
silvercup
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Yeah and the concert charged a set price up front and that surly has nothing to do with it.
I'm not arguing busking laws, cause there is no law against busking. That's the point.

I've found if a person is more concerned with a good solid entertainment instead of how to get around legal obstacles, whatever they may be, the compensation part takes care of itself. The deal is if you are not welcome, find somewhere where you are. That should be the lesson.
If you have to prod too hard your effort is misplaced.
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