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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Not necessarily. There are perhaps analogous situations in law, where insurance companies are in some instances required to provide attorneys for their insured, whose interests may conflict with the insurance companies'. These attorneys' sole responsibility is to the individual, and the duties of confidentiality, loyalty, etc. apply to the individual client.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts |
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On Jun 15, 2014, Dannydoyle wrote: Yes, often that is indeed the case. And I would much rather be disagreeing with red herrings than being deceived by them. YMMV.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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tomsk192 Inner circle 3894 Posts |
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On Jun 15, 2014, Dannydoyle wrote: Facetious remarks like that are dodging the truth: we have no school shootings. None. Does that compute? |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
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On Jun 15, 2014, tomsk192 wrote: So?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts |
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On Jun 15, 2014, Jonathan Townsend wrote: Can you give an example? I am not sure what sort of thing you are talking about. Doctors were already paid by insurance companies in the U.S., at least partially, for a long time now. Under what sort of health care system are you talking about? If the person is a participant of high risk activities, say like certain extreme sports, they may have to pay a higher insurance premium. Assuming you are talking about a system under which people buy their own health care insurance. That does not affect really anything at the doctor's end. The insurance company is charging the customer more, the doctor is getting paid. If the person keeps showing up with injuries from an extreme sport the insurance company will quickly catch on when it reviews the claim. Premiums will rise. Claims may be disallowed. The person may have to start paying cash for service instead of depending on the insurance company covering it.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
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On Jun 15, 2014, tomsk192 wrote: What does this prove exactly?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
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On Jun 15, 2014, balducci wrote: The doctors are paid by (their employers and then by) the insurance companies. I'm asking about this from the perspective of the insurance companies. One could imagine that the doctors are the employees of the insurance companies and their duty is to control costs ...
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
The doctors duty is to sell drugs on behalf of Elite Puppet Masters, who want nuts to shoot people, to create a call for control. The more power that is handed to the puppet leaders the more control the Elite Puppet Masters have. The Elite Puppet Master are also in control of the Industrial Fiction Complex. Through this media they give fictional violence, drugs etcetera on a grand scale to the people. The people go along with it for their amusement, because it is only fiction. However the fiction gets through to the peoples subconscious mind and they start acting as if violence and drug taking is normal. The Elite Puppet Masters know a certain amount in society will act like natural born killers. The reason the Elite Puppet Masters are bringing all this about now, is because its the end of the industrial revolution and they are going to reduce the population by 5 billion.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts |
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On Jun 15, 2014, LobowolfXXX wrote: Nice diversion. I said nothing about the people killed by cars, the problem is DIRECTLY comparing cars and guns. No more, no less. And, yes, it is completely invalid to try and directly compare them. Because they are simply not the same. The fallacy of one similarity means that just because a banana and a life raft are both yellow you still don't count on a banana to save you from drowning. Just because you say a banana is a life raft doesn't make it one.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts |
What's really bizarre is that the same comparison is used by both sides: "Cars are as bad as guns because they kill people" vs. "We regulate cars so we should regulate guns."
If we should regulate guns it's because we should regulate guns. It has nothing to do with cars.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
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On Jun 15, 2014, critter wrote: Nice try yourself. No two things that are compared to each other are exactly the same. But they have points of similarity. They kill people. Lots of people. Those deaths could be prevented if we did without them. That's true for both cars and guns. What's a "nice diversion" is your point that cars aren't intended to kill people. That's nice, but it doesn't change the fact they DO kill people - tens of thousands of people every year. Children, even. Children who would be alive if cars were banned. And here's another similarity - people who own cars wouldn't be willing to give up their cars even though if we all did it, fewer children would die every year. If we all were willing to admit that little fact of life, then some people would have an easier time understanding why some other people don't want to get rid of all the guns even if it would save some lives.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
So do docters. Them docters, they even kill people before they are born, before they have a chance to get a gun.
All them doctors--whether public or private who are obligated to stop a person who is in danger of immediately harming themselves or others, eh. So clearly, the state has the right to pass legislation that affects life.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts |
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On Jun 15, 2014, LobowolfXXX wrote: Some things we compare are more similar than dissimilar. Not so with guns and cars. Most people in our spaced apart society require a vehicle for their daily commute (except maybe those lucky enough to live in a place with a good public transportation system, which isn't here. But most people in America live in rural areas where there aren't even buses). Moving a person where they need to be in a reasonable amount of time is not only it's primary purpose but its primary use. Guns are used only to either kill or train to kill. They are not the same thing and your insistence that they are doesn't make it so. Aside from which, who is saying that everyone should give up their guns? Not the majority of gun control activists. Maybe a few extremists. I have no desire to give up my gun. So now it seems that you are manufacturing an artificial situation simply for the sake of argument. What chance does anyone have in a debate where the opponent creates the context as they go?
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
As far as manufacturing situations and who's saying what, why don't you ask Tomsk what his easy solution to eliminate school shootings entirely is? It was his post I was responding to.
As for analogies, I was looking for something that met these criteria: 1) Owned by millions of Americans; 2) Kills thousands and thousands of people; and 3) People don't want to give them up, regardless. So, when the analogy is viewed in light of its intended purpose, I think it's pretty good. I'm open to suggestions if you think you have a better one based on the stated criteria. How about swimming pools? Nobody drives them to work.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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tomsk192 Inner circle 3894 Posts |
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On Jun 15, 2014, Dannydoyle wrote: It doesn't prove anything, Danny. However, the incidence of shootings has massively reduced, not just school shootings, since guns were effectively banned. We have murders, rapes, child abuse, mugging, burglary, assault, fraud and all the rest. However, I find it perplexing that some people cannot grasp the notion that firearms enable mass, indiscriminate, random killing rather more easily than more close up methods, such as knives, cheese wire, axes or clubs. Or just a brick to the back of the head, which is a favourite in certain circles over here. Who am I to chastise your Nation? Nobody, that's who. But I can and do look on in wonder. |
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acesover Special user I believe I have 821 Posts |
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On Jun 15, 2014, critter wrote: Have you ever heard of target shooting or hunting? Neither one of those involve killing people yet they use guns and are hobbies and sports enjoyed by millions.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
After large-scale gun reform in the U.K., burglaries (for one) increased for several years, peaking in the mid-90s before declining.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Yea it is a whole lot easier to attack people without a fear of being shot. It amazes me that people want to ignore this.
Plus the fact that if we do ban guns it is not likely that criminals are going to give them up. It will seriously be a bad thing. Can't imagine not seeing that one coming. What exactly are the rates of violent crimes in the UK. I have seen studies that were fairly poorly done. But it seems as at one point England was the violent crime capitol of Europe. In the neighbor to the south only a few state stores sell guns, yet cartels have no trouble killing each other with them. Seems as if every easy answer to complex problems does not hold up.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
More homes got burgled here as commercial premises got belled up and more difficult to do. Any one who carried a gun on a burglary job here in England would be regarded as an idiot by the fraternity. One is most unlikely to meet an home-owner with a gun here and so there no need for them for that sort of work. All you would asking for is much heavier sentence if caught. Criminals don't carry guns unless the job calls for it. There are more guns carried now here because of drugs. There are plenty of drug dealers being robbed at gun point. Its easier to rob a drug dealer than a bank and so dealers tend get tooled up. There are plenty death threats as a result drug debts between them. Many of the kids here are dealing drugs and forming gangs and carrying them. It is easier to deal drugs than, well most things. Crime is driven by such factors. These school shooters are not they are nuts. They are like sex cases: Driven by pure nonsense in their heads or something. It is nothing to do with business, it's personnel.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts |
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On Jun 15, 2014, acesover wrote: Hunting is killing. Justified or not, it cannot be argued that it is killing. Target shooting is training to kill, as per my (second to?) last post. Guns weren't invented to kill elk, though, their original use was in warfare. Lobo: As for a more fitting analogy than cars... I think Doyle was onto something with his bow and arrow notion... Did you know that Henry VIII outlawed the use of guns and crossbows by anyone but the military (and then only during battle) because he wanted to encourage the people to take up archery? He felt it was more sporting. But I digest... I'm not into taking guns from sane and law-abiding citizens, I just think that comparing the apple to the arrow is silly. Nothing invested here, but like I said- I've gotten a laugh out of it.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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