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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Tricky business » » Website needs to be reviewed (3 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Dynamike
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TomBoleware
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I think I like the Blue the best.
Clean neat look. Well done.

Tom
Do What Others Do And You Will Become Average

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Dynamike
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Thank you. Blue it will be.
charliecheckers
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Blue caught my eye as well. Not sure why, but that is the one I picked as well. Both look great to me.
Dynamike
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Good look'n out bro. Smile
JoshLondonMagic
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Mike, did you split test the 2 pages?

This is the only true way to know which landing pages work best. You can use tools like Unbounce, Optimizely, OptimizePress (which I use) and many others to create 2 identical landing pages, but change one element (like the background color or a headline) and let it run for a bit to see which has more clickthroughs, more time on page, etc.

This will probably come out wrong, so please don't take it the wrong way, but don't listen to other magicians about what their favorite color is or even your wife, friends, and Pastor...

The only opinion that matters is that of prospects visiting your website. They will tell you if your website is good, bad or otherwise.

Start split testing and see which works best!

Mike Clay and I always split test everything in our line of work because at the end of the day results is what matters and who knows - maybe the red was the better color Smile


Josh
Josh
Dynamike
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Thanks Josh. I like using SoloSEO.
MikeClay
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VWO.com and crazyegg are the two systems I use to split test
JoshLondonMagic
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How do you like VWO Mike? Ever try Unbounce?
Josh
charliecheckers
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Quote:
On Aug 29, 2014, JoshLondonMagic wrote:
This will probably come out wrong, so please don't take it the wrong way, but don't listen to other magicians about what their favorite color is or even your wife, friends, and Pastor...
The only opinion that matters is that of prospects visiting your website. They will tell you if your website is good, bad or otherwise.
Josh


So true.
MikeClay
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Love VWO..

We use it as one of the major data sources for landing page optimization.
charliecheckers
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Reading this thread made me really think about what Mindpro speaks of, which is first developing a business model prior to other things related to the business.

Dynamike offers two websites that he is considering. How much time and financial resources he devotes to selecting the optimal one should depend on his business model. It may make more sense to devote that time and money towards a different aspect of his business model, such as show content or alternative resources that will better promote his particular business.

While I am interested in learning more about internet marketing to provide myself a broader foundation, I do not believe that the difference between Dynamike's choices would warrant the necessary time or financial resources for investigation for MY business model. In other words, I could better spend that time and money elsewhere to strengthen my position in my market. For others it may be important because their business relies heavily on internet promotion.
Mindpro
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Exactly. However it seems not worth talking about if no one seems to want to understand it. I think all of these marketing guys would experience much greater results and success stories (beyond what they currently experience) if they shared this perspective as well.

While I have refrained from offering my opinions on Mike's sites (although I do like the red color better) I think all of this tech is being based on mechanics rather than at it's most basic level, what visitors and those interested and inquiring choose and find appealing. Now day so much is being based on numbers, tracking, and other technological methods. This is not always what is most appealing to the visitor.

As an example I spoke to a lady sitting next to me on a plane Friday that after learning who I was and what I did, explained she just booked an entertainer for a Christmas Party (she said Christmas Party not a Holiday Party, as she said that term pi***d her off whether politically correct or not - I agreed but also found it funny) and I asked her about the booking process she explained she found the website and only visited the home page for about 15-20 seconds. She said she was specifically looking for a local phone number (not a toll-free number) and then immediately called, spoke to the performer and booked them within fifteen minutes.

Now several things about this I found quite interesting and also agreed with almost 100%. The fact that soooo many entertainers do not offer their direct phone number has always driven me crazy. This along with not offering an email address but rather a form to be filled out, a code that must be entered to prevent spamming (like that is such a problem to most performers), and having to search for this information rather that it being easily available to the visitor is all too common today.

The point is if you were going by numbers, tracking and statistics, it would have shown she only visited the home or landing page and only stayed less than 15 seconds. No click-throughs, no lengthy time spent on multiple pages, not clicks to track, no tracking where she came from or linked from, no length of stay on each of several pages, none of this. Yet it lead to the most direct booking a performer could expect. In the eyes of tech this proved less than interesting or favorable, yet in reality it the ultimate, preferred way to utilize your website and generate a booking/income.

This tech is designed to give the owner (performer) information, but not necessarily at it's purest and most basic level what the viewer prefers. In our efforts to utilize technology to gain information, to try to track and direct visitors, it seems there are some basic and elementary basics that get dismissed.

As charlie mentions, it is absurd to begin marketing before a business model and system is created and in place. It seems no one wants to hear this, but really, how can you expect to succeed when your marketing hope and wishes rather than something specific and tangible? (btw, not talking about Dynamkie here, just speaking in general). I think of the time and effort that is being put into this all without the structure of a business plan and system. This leads to unrealistic and almost guaranteed disappointment and less than expected results. To me, there's no way it really even has a chance to work or succeed.

I offer this insight here to help others and to prevent disappointment and failure, NOT to slam or discredit anyone. Some will take it as otherwise, but those that actually take the time to get this as charlie has will prevent a lot of headaches and wasted time and efforts.

With all of that said, once a business model and business operating system IS in place, I think the services offered buy these type of guys (Eaton, Clay, Josh and others) can be a much more vital, useful and important component in the overall system - but in the right time, and in the right place and order of your business system.

Like charliecheckers, I too do think it's wrong and unrealistic for Dynamike to ask for comparisons, thoughts and advice, without us knowing his exact interests, targets, plan, call to action, and desired results for the exact market he is targeting. Without this info, answers are simply just opinions. The greatest misconceptions and confusion on the Café comes from those that can not separate thoughts and opinions from solid advice based on facts and experience.
Dynamike
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Quote:
On Aug 30, 2014, charliecheckers wrote:

Dynamike offers two websites that he is considering.

There are several more urls:
www.waynecountymagician.com
www.detroit-magic-man.com
www.southfieldmagician.com
www.townshipmagician.com
Those are just a few. There are 22 altogether.




Quote:
How much time and financial resources he devotes to selecting the optimal one should depend on his business model. It may make more sense to devote that time and money towards a different aspect of his business model, such as show content or alternative resources that will better promote his particular business.



I agree with you. I have been putting more time and money into different areas of my business recently. One is the backdrop and my logo over the suitcase table:
Image
I plan to have a banner at the top of my backdrop with my name on it. I am also taking my time on getting pull up banners. I am not going to rush it because I want to make sure I have the right design.

I already put in money to have a custom theme song for my introduction. I have been putting pieces together for more publicity too. I spent an average of purchasing $2,500 in items at the Kidabra convention this month. Eric and I were together. The software material I have with marketing on Facebook has helped me a lot. There is more I have been working on too. Because of the more I am putting into my business model, I have been very busy. That is why my post count is decreasing.
charliecheckers
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Dynamike - I always love the pictures you share.

Yeah, I think the things you mentioned would bring more value than investing time and money to determine which one of the two awesome homepage designs you shared here was better, even if one was determined to generate longer view times. You would have to do further research as to whether that in fact translated to more inquiries and then if that lead to more bookings of the price and type of shows you target. This would seem reasonable if you offer services that appeal to price shoppers who are hiring an entertainer from a web based search and not necessarily discriminating when it comes to who they hire. Then more inquiries resulting in more bookings makes sense. Otherwise, it seems to make more sense to focus on developing a well known brand where clients are searching specifically for you, and therefore not going to be significantly influenced by subtle design differences in your website.

So, while I agree that listening to input from other performers can be misleading, if your business model is not heavily reliant upon unsolicited inquiries from web searches, it probably does not really matter all that much which one you choose. Every bit matters, of course, but that is true with every facet of your business.
JoshLondonMagic
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Quote:
On Aug 30, 2014, Mindpro wrote:
I think all of this tech is being based on mechanics rather than at it's most basic level, what visitors and those interested and inquiring choose and find appealing. Now day so much is being based on numbers, tracking, and other technological methods. This is not always what is most appealing to the visitor.


Another example of where Mindpro mixes up what was said.

Minpro - Take a look at my last post in this thread. I go so far as to say that Mike SHOULDN'T listen to magicians about what website is better, but rather look at what the visitors (read: paying customers) think about his site. I think you're narrow view of what internet marketing actually is proves my point that anyone with a website should create and optimize it based up real world results.

Now before you get ahead of me and tell me I'm wrong, blah blah blah, let me preface this with the fact that there does need to be certain, as you refer to them "mechanics" which I will assume you mean analytics. You will need certain analytics installed on your website to determine what to optimize.

Tools as simple (and free) as Google Analytics help, Crazy Egg (as Mike Clay mentioned before) will show you heat maps, SEO Suites will analyze web pages and sites, and on and on.

I think that we are both going for the same thing at the end of the day: To appeal to visitors, but when you continue to make remarks like the one above it irritates me to no end because it is just plain wrong.

The job of people like me (SEM, SEO and PPC) is to take an existing website, turn it on its head and test the heck out of the thing and really let the numbers do the talking.

Based on your statement above I've come to the conclusion that you really don't know what internet marketing is, nor do you care to understand it.

The ability to create a presence online and reach prospects is unlike anything you have ever known. Only now - You are given the ability to test NO split test your advertising messaging and refine it over and over and over again.

Quote:
On Aug 30, 2014, Mindpro wrote:
Now day so much is being based on numbers, tracking, and other technological methods. This is not always what is most appealing to the visitor.


If what we do to grow our businesses isn't based on numbers, tracking, and other technological methods what the heck are we in business for???

You speak a lot about magicians not being the best business people, but this statement takes the cake.

Again, Mindpro, you and I are after the same thing --- We want to optimize our advertising messages, right?

I think the thing is that you are commenting and offering your opinion on things you have no idea about. Nothing wrong with that, but to say that internet marketing and "technology" isn't the way to go about it because it is just the opposite. The tools (for Mindpro: "technology") out there to create an online presence and optimize it is astounding.

Plus, with YOUR customers, Mindpro, going online via social media and searching for fun and interesting things who's to say that my website doesn't come up and appeal to THEM more than YOURS and they end up being MY customer and NOT yours?

At any rate, I think we are getting at the same point (again), but we are targeting different generations of people.

Let the flaming begin............

:)
Josh
charliecheckers
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Seems I missed Mindpro's post while typing, but thanks for sharing your story. That is what I was eluding to in my previous post- that time spent on a page does not necessarily mean better.
charliecheckers
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Quote:
On Aug 30, 2014, JoshLondonMagic wrote:
Let the flaming begin............
:)


It already has. LOL.
TomBoleware
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All the man said was which looks best red or blue.

I said blue, but if it’s going to destroy his life, I’ll stick with red. Smile


Tom
Do What Others Do And You Will Become Average

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Mindpro
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No flaming, so don't be so paranoid.

The point is none of the tech stuff matters if the the elements are not in place first. It it's not all you are doing is working with what exists without a system or business model in place, which tracks the array of undirected mismosh called marketing. Think of it as getting in your car and heading out for a trip. Without a GPS or a map structuring where you are going, all the tracking in the world would only track the mismosh of twists and turns you are making that will likely not get you anywhere, especially to where you want to go. So all of the tech/analytics are only tracking what is happening in an unprepared, uncoordinated and uncharted state.

By taking the time to figure out exactly the specifics of your business as it pertains directly to your interests, needs and businesses, getting them all in place, THEN the tracking of the process and results is actually effective and bankable from which to review, study, tweak and improve.

I agree one should not listen to other magicians, however I believe for different reasons along with a few of the same.

"The tools (for Mindpro: "technology") out there to create an online presence and optimize it is astounding."
Yes, these tools may be great to do this ONCE THE PROPER AND TARGETED, SPECIFIC BUSINESS PLAN IS IN PLACE WHICH DETERMINES THE ON LINE PRESENCE TO BE OPTIMIZED. It's the order I'm referring to. So many are in such a hurry to get a website up and an online presence established BEFORE they have the direction, plan and specific targets and calls to action in place.

I think you are missing the point I was making which was so much time and effort is spent on trying to use and understand technology, I see more and more missing the basics of what appeals and is of interest to the actual prospective customers. Many seem to focus on the wrong things, or at least in the wrong order. So many, including many here because of all of this tech are working more in their business than on their business.

It doesn't matter if I know about the tech I'm talking about, again you're missing my point. One doesn't need to know anything about tech to work on and get the proper components in place FIRST. Then and only then does tech and the understanding of it come into play.

"Plus, with YOUR customers, Mindpro, going online via social media and searching for fun and interesting things who's to say that my website doesn't come up and appeal to THEM more than YOURS and they end up being MY customer and NOT yours?"
This is what you are not understanding. Because the way my business system and operations are in place there is no way you or most others could provide what I do or what my customers want. There are only two possible or potential entertainers that could possibly even be considered "competition" and I have systems in place so that they really do not become an option or choice. A good system includes many elements which includes positioning and branding (that may later be able utilized and benefit from social media & tech). That's also part of my point - having the proper business system and plan in place reduces or eliminates much and in some cases all of the competition, qualifies every incoming client inquiry so I'm not wasting my time (or money), positions me by offering things and solutions impossible for others to offer (or even come close), and creates a much higher closing and conversion rate - before any tech, marketing or even lead gen. So once the business plan and system is in place, you have a much more clearly defined and tested knowledge and plan to THEN, if you choose, utilize tech and social media.

I also disagree with you that this is a generational thing. Having a business plan and operational system in place has nothing to do with age or generation. Tech may. They can work together in the right order and perspective. You seem to be so into the tech that perhaps that is all you can see or understand?

Remember, a website is only one single tool in your business arsenal. Many succeed without one at all.

"The ability to create a presence online and reach prospects is unlike anything you have ever known."
This statement shows your single focus and mentality. There have been many other resources and tools that have been used in business over the years that were quite effective and in their time also seen the the "greatest", everything ranging from newspaper, radio & t.v., to direct mail, trade/industry resources and broadcast fax. There are many longtime professionals that will tell you that the Internet is the single element that has made getting booking harder than previously for many due to direct access to performers causing many performers to have to compete on price and other less than previously components. I was just discussing this today with a very well-known and respected national professional entertainer that share these same sentiments.

I don't believe I mixed up at all what I was commenting on, which was in reference to what charliecheckers posted.
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