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stoneunhinged Inner circle 3067 Posts |
Here's a part of what on wrote on this subject here at the Café a couple of years ago:
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That's what you people are saving up your hard-earned money to send your kids to. The modern university is the greatest scam of ALL TIME. You send your kid there to be indoctrinated by a bunch of half-wits and spend two-thirds of their time binge-drinking and fornicating with as many people as possible, and you pay the price of a house for them to go. Meanwhile the teachers are sucking up those funds to write article after article of meaningless, jargon-filled, ideological tripe that in spite of its total vacuity gets passed on as "scholarship"--that is, when they aren't getting drunk and fornicating with their students. Of course, they have to be careful--one slip up and they might have their entire career destroyed by an accusation of sexual harassment, because it's war after all...turf war..brutal, violent, and filled with vial Machiavellian scheming and backstabbing over everything from office furniture to the library budget. I might have meant some of that to be tongue-in-cheek. Then again, maybe not. |
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S2000magician Inner circle Yorba Linda, CA 3465 Posts |
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On Jun 20, 2014, stoneunhinged wrote: Vial? Perhaps you meant cruet, or, more pedestrian, jar or bottle, or flask, even. Surely not vial. I mean, usually it's the vial that's filled with something, not the other way round. |
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stoneunhinged Inner circle 3067 Posts |
I meant "vile", and am surprised I mispelled it. Too many years abroad has affected my English.
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
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On Jun 20, 2014, stoneunhinged wrote: I used to work for multi-national oil companies. The description fits them pretty well too (apart from the tuition bit).
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Wow.
Not at all sure here.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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stoneunhinged Inner circle 3067 Posts |
Don't get me wrong: as Bob said, a solid liberal arts education is invaluable--just as much today as ever. If I didn't believe in it, I wouldn't do it. But one needs to put a lot of thought and effort into deciding where and when and how much is reasonable to invest. I will not be disappointed if my son or step-children choose to go to college, and I hope they will come to me as much for the advice as for the money. But I will also respect their deciding to do something else. It's not simply a "given" anymore. Not in my mind. Mileage may vary, of course.
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
Of course, in civilized places like Norway or Québec, postsecondary tuition is heavily subsidized, as it is seen to be as much of a citizenship right as is clean drinking water, or procedural justice.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
I think it is worth it only if it helps you to become more independent.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
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On Jun 20, 2014, Magnus Eisengrim wrote: A citizenship right now?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
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On Jun 20, 2014, Dannydoyle wrote: Do you approve of the right to Kindergarten through High School education?
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
I have nephew who is a professional student. He is now about 50 years old. All he has done, all his life, is take one course after another. I have lost track of how many things he is now qualified in. Many of them practical things, like plumbing etcetera. I have never known him do any work for money. He might have done some teaching perhaps. He has always got a different girl with him and he may be some sort of gigolo I think. He is not interested in money. I mean he never seems to have any or do anything to earn any. I don't know who pays for these courses but I assume it is the tax payer.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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S2000magician Inner circle Yorba Linda, CA 3465 Posts |
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On Jun 20, 2014, stoneunhinged wrote: Self-deprecation: I admire you for that. Actually, of all of the alternatives I listed, cruet would have been your best choice: you could plausibly argue that you'd meant cruel and that it was a typo. Vial vs. vile is a more difficult typo argument. |
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S2000magician Inner circle Yorba Linda, CA 3465 Posts |
Back on topic: I always advocate a university education.
However, the fact that I teach in universities might, to the more suspicious (or cynical) amongst you, appear to be a conflict of interest. |
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MobilityBundle Regular user Las Vegas/Boston 120 Posts |
A few people have observed that education is its own reward, and I agree. But one needn't go to college (much less *pay* for college) in order to get an education. As Matt Damon observed in Good Will Hunting, "you dropped a hundred and fifty grand on a [fornicating] education you coulda' got for a dollar fifty in late charges at the public library."
Education is important. It's the credential that I'm wondering whether is worth it. |
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MobilityBundle Regular user Las Vegas/Boston 120 Posts |
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On Jun 18, 2014, LobowolfXXX wrote: Well, there are articles like this: http://ideas.time.com/2013/03/11/just-ho......aduates/ For some raw data: http://www.nalp.org/salarydistrib The mean salary for 2012 law school grads is about $80K. But the distribution is bi-modal, so the mean is a little misleading. There's one sharp peak at around $160K (probably top law school grads with good grades), and another wider peak at about $50K. The hard part is figuring out how applicable that data is. The 2012 data is based on about 21,000 reported salaries. Other sites suggest there are about 40,000 law school grads in 2012. So the reporting isn't very good. I suspect that the folks who don't report tend to be on the lower end of the scale. Just speculation, but you know how law school grads are: if they're at the top of a list -- any list -- they want the world to know about it. If not, not. |
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
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On Jun 23, 2014, MobilityBundle wrote: Most of us can't get an education from a library until AFTER we've been formally educated.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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General_Magician Special user United States 707 Posts |
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On Jun 19, 2014, 0pus wrote: I think education itself is it's own reward insomuch that it helps you to be a better thinker and understand the world better as well as how to solve problems. But that's about it. Maybe you could get a job in the field you study, maybe not. Maybe you go to school in your field of study and once you graduate you find out you don't like your field and so you switch fields, but, at least you have some critical thinking and problem solving skills which a college education helped you to develop. A college education to my knowledge has never been a guarantee of success, financial stability or riches but it can help you to achieve success but it is not necessary to achieve success. That being said, in order to do well for yourself financially, I don't think it's necessary to have a college education to do well financially. You could be a college drop out like Bill Gates and become a billionaire. Their are a lot of current real world examples of billionaires who never graduated college. I think it's best to start your own business in this day and age in order to have some sembelance of financial stability and you won't be at the mercy and goodwill of an employer. Rather, the only limits you have when you are business owner is the limits you set on yourself. When you become a w-2 employee, it is much more difficult to set your own limits though perhaps not completely impossible but very difficult. Instead, your limits are most likely to be set by your employer rather than yourself. In my view, you want to put your life and your destiny in your own hands rather than in the hands, goodwill and mercy of an employer (and the problem with working for an employer is that they simply do not care about or have your best interests in mind and yet you have given them a lot of power over your destiny and livilyhood). The way to best accomplish this is by become the business owner and serving others on your terms rather than on somebody else's terms. You will never live up to your full potential serving others on somebody else's terms (such as an employer). You will work harder beng a business owner but you will be happier and more fulfilled doing so and your destiny will be more in your hands and you can control your destiny rather than somebody else. You will also be proud of building something that not only benefits others and yourself economically, but something that has more meaning to you and probably others as well. A college education can help in making you better understand how to accomplish this but it is not a pre-requisite or necessary, though it may or may not be more difficult without the college education and the critical thinking skills developed when pursuing your degree.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown
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stoneunhinged Inner circle 3067 Posts |
IF college is about developing skills (which I don't think it is), then the skills learned have little to do with critical thinking. The primary skills learned (IMHO) are processing and summarizing large amounts of information. Undergraduates learn little about critically assessing the information they are processing. Most of them temporarily follow the ideological fads of their favorite professors.
College is about soul growth. It's a wonderful place for such an opportunity. Then again, so is Australia. Buy your son or daughter a high quality backpack and a plane ticket, and wish them good luck and much adventure. There is no one-size-fits-all about higher education. There never was. I have gotten to know a few thousand college students on a personal and intellectual basis. Some belong in college. Some don't. Will the economy realize this some day? I dunno. |
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General_Magician Special user United States 707 Posts |
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On Jun 23, 2014, stoneunhinged wrote: Did any of them say things like "DO AS YOU'RE TOLD WHEN YOU ARE TOLD!" or "DON'T THINK! JUST FOLLOW INSTRUCTIONS/ORDERS" ? LOL! If so, did they belong in college?
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown
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MobilityBundle Regular user Las Vegas/Boston 120 Posts |
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On Jun 23, 2014, stoneunhinged wrote: Glad you said it. When people evaluate the value of college, I think their thought process (whether conscious or not) is to think back to their college experience. They hold up the good things about their college experience (... their personal blend of personal growth, intellectual growth, rampant debauchery...) as evidence of college's value. The part they're often missing, I think, is the availability of alternatives. In another example, people I've spoken with point out how college is the place where they form strong personal connections and make friends that can last a lifetime. I wonder whether that's just what one does as an 18-22 year old in (almost) any setting. One doesn't HAVE to go to college to make friends. Or at least, one doesn't have to pay tuition. |
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