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Mindpro Eternal Order 10587 Posts |
Do you remember when members used to come here to learn, share, contribute and participate for the love of the business of performing? I've spend the last few months on the road and while doing so have gone back over to revisit many years of old threads here in Tricky Business.
Today it seems like the majority of the posts here are shameless self-promotion of things all with a sales objective from a "me" perspective. Today everyone seems to have a report, e-book, podcast, course or their latest take on some effect or trick. Is it now about making a buck? It's now become so many only post about their products and services, yet rarely of ever post or contribute to regular threads with the intent to share and help others? There is really a huge difference between this forum today and just months ago. Yet very few of any of these guys actually buy advertising here and I'd say likely have never donated to the Café support fund. This is too bad, as this section of the Café I've always felt more than any other was the most helpful to performers of all levels and has been solely responsible for furthering many members performance careers and most of all growth and profitability. It's now to the point when you see certain people's name appear next to a post, that without even clicking on it they are plugging, selling or hocking something. I'm seeing guys that have taken for years, and now that they feel they have something to share only want to do so at a price or for a fee. It seems more and more like taking without truly giving back. This is really too bad and quite unfortunate, especially for those that still come here to share and learn. |
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rossmacrae Inner circle Arlington, Virginia 2475 Posts |
Hey, everybody! Buy my stuff!
Well, I used to say something like that. Now most of my stuff is available free on Youtube. You can see it HERE ... and even more of it HERE. Really truly free, nothing there asks you to buy anything, it's just plain free. Does that help? Additional thought: may some of the admitted proliferation of marketing have anything to do with the extinction of brick-and-mortar magic shops? I used to shop at some of the best, and the quantity of useless crap among the gems there was astounding. It was there ... now it's here. |
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Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
There is actually a new magic market, the guy who only buys to see how it is done. That is what all the junk magic and magic that can be found in old magic magazines is being put on DVD and sold for high prices. Of course wholesalers love this, and that is their market. Unfortunately, there is no way to separate these people from people that are actually interested in magic as in doing tricks. Not just watching a video and buy another one.
As for the business side of magic, the performance of magic in today's society is deader then a doornail. No offense MindPro, but you have been on a tour for 3 months and yet there is not a tiny bit of a traveling showman anywhere. You certainly did not come to Fort Wayne and appear at our famous Embassy Theater where David Copperfield performs his traveling shows. As no magician, mentalist, juggler, or spirit performer was booked in the last 3 months. I hope you had a successful run, but seem no one know for sure if you even are telling the truth. As far as everyone selling something, that is true for all of the Café. Soft selling to hard core selling. The constant new decks the Café promotes weekly is real pain. I think designing decks just so they have something new for the collector of decks of cards it totally wrong and actually immoral. But the U.S. has forced this kind of actions for people to make a living or offset their income to deal with the fall of all retail stores in the U.S. I wonder what would happen if the entire Internet crashed for a week. The U.S. would go bankrupt most likely. Sad - Very sad indeed. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
The Who did not perform there either. Neither did The Rolling Stones, U2 , or Kreskin. What exactly is the point you are trying to make?
The guy who wants to know how it is done has been around since before I worked at Magic Inc. in the 90s.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Scott Burton Inner circle 1131 Posts |
It is what it is. I'm more about finding greener pastures than mourning what is lost. The internet is evolving and perhaps it's time to find that new venue that serves your/our needs?
Not that I'm saying this is a good or bad solution but I've certainly noticed that dialogue seems to have moved from forums in general to Facebook groups and other social media (private or public) venues. |
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Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 27, 2014, Dannydoyle wrote: My point was, I read, seen, nor heard of any entertainer traveling across the country from my sources. And yes, Kreskin has appeared here, so why not stop on a registered theater group. This theater does not do rock groups, we put them up in the larger facilities we have available for thousands of people. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
I can think of a dozen off the top of my head who travel across the country. I freely admit many may not make it to your theater but can we agree it is possible to tour without you knowing about it?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Ken Northridge Inner circle Atlantic City, NJ 2392 Posts |
On a side note, does anyone make decent money selling stuff to magicians, other than a high volume magic store? I've never had any desire to produce or sell something to magicians. Generally speaking magicians are pretty cheap! And yet as you say, there are so many trying to do it. I'd rather put my time into improving my act which is more apt to increase my bank account.
"Love is the real magic." -Doug Henning
www.KenNorthridge.com |
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Dynamike Eternal Order FullTimer 24148 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 29, 2014, Ken Northridge wrote: You consider yourself cheap? |
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Ken Northridge Inner circle Atlantic City, NJ 2392 Posts |
I do.
"Love is the real magic." -Doug Henning
www.KenNorthridge.com |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10587 Posts |
No, very few actually make any real money on these releases. Then there is another issue that is NEVER discussed publicly but I know is discussed personally in private as I have been privy to many of these from several of these creators. This is the issue that kills these guys. It is when they do release their personal work and then see others that have bought the works performing it terribly, wrong, incorrect or not as intended. It kills these guys, eats them up.
I've listen to rants and raves by several of these guys in just the past two years. I'm sure it must be frustrating to see something so personal to you being tarnished and misrepresented by a poor or terrible performance. So between making little or no money, all the time and effort that often can go into these things, and these performance results in the hands of purchasers, I would venture to say it is really not worth in on many levels. |
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Dynamike Eternal Order FullTimer 24148 Posts |
I wouldn't listen to them if I was you Mindpro.
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10587 Posts |
No worries Mike, I would never release any of my performance material for these and a variety of other reasons. Performance materials are so subjective anyway it is almost impossible for others to receive the expected results as they imagine it working for them.
If I release anything again it would be material that is useful to many entertainers and while still subjective the expected results could more specifically and easily obtained. |
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Starrpower Inner circle 4070 Posts |
I guess I don't find it as offensive as some might. In fact, at times I look forward to those posts. Tommy James, for example, posts primarily about his own products but he has good stuff so I generally will look at his posts.
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Sam Sandler Inner circle 2487 Posts |
While I agree there are far too many wet behind the ears magicians selling stuff or ideas I have no problem if they plug their stuff in the correct forum.
the reality is many of these magicians are selling stuff with no real experience. meaning they have not put the time in yet to really know what they are talking about. they read a few books maybe or watch a ton of videos on youtube and put together one thing and sell it as their own. the marketing courses are terrible at best. i don't sell on the Café but when I am at magic conventions lecturing and performing I sell well. or at magic clubs I also do well. I don't find them cheap but maybe it has to do with that I am selling good stuff. things that I have perfected over years and years during my shows that I have toured with all across america. I just completed a 41 state national tour with my new show. cant wait to get back on the road and do it again. point is if you really have some thing of value to sell great. but here on the Café the idea is magicians helping magicians - now that does not mean I am giving up all my own personal material but those of us that have the experience and knowledge should be willing to offer advice here and there. sadly many times the newbie does not want real advice but rather wants us to praise them and agree with them regardless how wrong they are. i have spend much more time in PM with other magicians coaching and offering advice then in public forum. i want to help but some times I get annoyed by those that want to just argue and debate everything. people like Dick Osland and mindpro and danny doyle, myself and several others have offered real world advice and then followed by a bombarding of others telling us we don't know what we are talking about. that is part of the problem why some are not offering advice here on the Café any more. sad but true. hopefully we can turn a corner and get back to magicians helping magicians. as if we can help create better magicians better performances better shows it will benefit all of us. sam
sam sandler- America's only full-time DEAF Illusionist
http://www.samsandler.com http://www.deafinitelymagic.com |
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rossmacrae Inner circle Arlington, Virginia 2475 Posts |
I'll throw one more thought into the discussion: when I was selling my magic DVDs (not selling them anymore) as a matter of principle and customer trust, I made sure every customer knew they could return any item for any reason - no questions asked - within a week of receiving it. I'd answer any questions by email, both before and after a purchase, and if a shipment was lost I'd ask for a few days grace, and if it still hadn't shown up I'd re-ship free right away. Thatr only happened five or six times.
None of this "must protect the secrets" stuff (besides, my DVDs were more about marketing than tricks), none of this fear that the offer will be abused. I think I got about 5 returns out of hundreds of orders. Insist on EXCELLENT CUSTOMER SERVICE. I once knew of a retailer of really high-end psychic effects (no names please) who made a big ol' THANG of "no returns, no claims that you didn't receive it, no complaints". My one transaction with him was incredibly sour just from the policy, even though nothing went wrong. He's gone now ... considering his wonderful product line, it's a loss ... considering his personality, it's no loss. |
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Scott Burton Inner circle 1131 Posts |
Sam, are you going to write a "report" to let us know all about your adventures on your tour? I bet you have wonderful stories.
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Ken Northridge Inner circle Atlantic City, NJ 2392 Posts |
Sam will be writing a book, or if you're poor, you can scroll through his facebook posts for the past year.
"Love is the real magic." -Doug Henning
www.KenNorthridge.com |
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Scott Burton Inner circle 1131 Posts |
Fingers crossed that it's not a "how-to" book.
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Sam Sandler Inner circle 2487 Posts |
Scott. No how to book. No worries. More of a this is what I experienced and what I learned
I'll share some amazing stories and hardships and cool things. It will be more of an inspirational story of me over coming my deafness and how I did it Thx And maybe I'll post a few fun stories here in he Café. Not sure what section to do that but I'll see
sam sandler- America's only full-time DEAF Illusionist
http://www.samsandler.com http://www.deafinitelymagic.com |
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