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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
"Major Ruling Shields Privacy of Cellphones
Supreme Court Says Phones Can’t Be Searched Without a Warrant In a sweeping victory for privacy rights in the digital age, the Supreme Court on Wednesday unanimously ruled that the police need warrants to search the cellphones of people they arrest. While the decision will offer protection to the 12 million people arrested every year, many for minor crimes, its impact will most likely be much broader. The ruling almost certainly also applies to searches of tablet and laptop computers, and its reasoning may apply to searches of homes and businesses and of information held by third parties like phone companies. “This is a bold opinion,” said Orin S. Kerr, a law professor at George Washington University. 'It is the first computer-search case, and it says we are in a new digital age. You can’t apply the old rules anymore.' " http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/26/us/sup......tml?_r=0 I have no idea how many unanimous opinions this SCOTUS has delivered, but I'm amazed at the unanimity of this one. In concert with the Snowden revelations this is a potential game changer. If the police cannot grab the contents of a cellphone without a warrant, I think every US citizen now has a strong incontrovertible legal case against the NSA's massive warrantless suspicionless surveillance. I expect (seriously) some major lawsuits which will no longer be so easy to dismiss. I expect (a whole lot less seriously, but why not?) that James Clapper, Keith Alexander, and Michael Hayden will be doing prison time if they continue their actions in defiance of the Supreme Court.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Re 9-0 decisions, there was recently another one: http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/26/justice/su......dex.html
I hope your extrapolation of the ruling is insightful at the macro level. On the micro level, I don't know how much difference it will make. My suspicion is, in many if not most cases, if they have the phone, they'll search it; if they find something incriminating, they'll create a pretext for a warrant.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 27, 2014, landmark wrote: This surprises you? I thought the members of SCOTUS were all well known sexters.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
That wouldn't surprises me.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 27, 2014, LobowolfXXX wrote: This may be of interest to some other readers: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_p......own.html Executive summary: "unanimity of votes doesn’t correspond with unanimity of opinion"
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
So they all agreed it was unconstitutional for different reasons. It was still unconstitutional. But keep grasping at straws LOL. I guess the nine justices are obviously racist.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 27, 2014, Dannydoyle wrote: What is this "grasping at straws" or "racism" nonsense? You should really think before you type your knee-jerk responses.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
I did look. They say it is not a big deal because the reasons it was found unconstitutional were not all the same so it does not have to mean much. It is written to make conservatives think that the SCOTUS didn't curb president Obama.
As for racist, I was being smart alec. Everyone who has opposed this president and his march to power has been called it by certain groups. It was a joke.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
Where is this sex club anyway?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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lynnef Inner circle 1407 Posts |
If you ever watch 'The First 48' reality cop show; you'll notice they frequently use cell phone information from either victim's phone OR a phone which has been dropped at the scene. If the phone is found on the ground, would they need a warrant? Lynn
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
Interesting question. I would guess not. The cops don't need a warrant to search anything in certain circumstances. The other night they were chasing someone and looking in sheds and so in my back garden and all. If they had found a phone dropped then I think they could look into it to id who they were chasing. I am not sure what they call it but something like an hot pursuit search. It might come under that sort of thing.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 27, 2014, LobowolfXXX wrote: "Among recent presidents, Ronald Reagan made 240 recess appointments, George H. W. Bush made 77, Bill Clinton made 139, George W. Bush made 171, and Obama has made 32 so far." Stop him! He's out of control! *eyeroll*
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 27, 2014, critter wrote: Of course those appointments were actually made during recesses.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts |
Back when there actually was recess.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts |
All kidding aside, I think our government is almost irreversibly broken and things are only going to get worse for almost everyone. Divided we fall and all that rot.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
Quote:
On the micro level, I don't know how much difference it will make. My suspicion is, in many if not most cases, if they have the phone, they'll search it; if they find something incriminating, they'll create a pretext for a warrant. That's a fair concern; certainly in the past in NYC when you were arrested for a political reason, like legitimately demonstrating, it was pretty much a given that they were going to download your cellphone info. There's some gizmo that does it very quickly. Sometimes, I suspect, that was the only reason for the arrests in the first place. In addition, recently I went to attend a courtcase of someone who was arrested at a demo on trumped up charges , and unlike every other courtcase happening at that time, spectators had to give up their cellphones to court officers before we could go into the courtroom. I chose to hold onto my cellphone and waited outside. But I think ultimately it will make a difference; because there will be some idiots who will be just too blatant and they'll get sued. And when it means money, heads will start to roll.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 27, 2014, LobowolfXXX wrote: Which is EXACTLY the point.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 27, 2014, critter wrote: Perhaps if the government just got back to doing the 18 things they are allowed to do would be a pretty good start.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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MobilityBundle Regular user Las Vegas/Boston 120 Posts |
Quote:
This is a bold opinion,” said Orin S. Kerr, a law professor at George Washington University. 'It is the first computer-search case, and it says we are in a new digital age. You can’t apply the old rules anymore.' I don't doubt fancy-pants professors like Orin Kerr, but this is certainly not the first computer-search case. Way back in law school, I did a paper on Constitutional issues of digital searches, and there were a lot of cases and other academic articles to draw from. I wonder what Kerr was talking about. --- Separately, Lynn asked: Quote:
If you ever watch 'The First 48' reality cop show; you'll notice they frequently use cell phone information from either victim's phone OR a phone which has been dropped at the scene. If the phone is found on the ground, would they need a warrant? Lynn As Tommy noted, there are a lot of exceptions to the warrant requirement. One of them is "exigency" -- the idea that if a search isn't conducted right now, then some kind of irreparable harm or damage might occur. But the scope of the search has to be commensurate with what's going on. For example, suppose the cops are in hot pursuit of a suspect (whom they have independent probable cause to arrest), and they see the suspect jump a fence and go into a warehouse. The cops are allowed to jump the fence and search the warehouse in pursuit. (Ordinarily, they'd need a warrant.) Now they're in the warehouse, and they're looking around for the suspect. They're allowed to look under desks, in closets, in large containers that might conceal a person, etc. If they happen to find a bunch of drugs in such a large container, then that too is a valid search (and the drugs are admissible as evidence against whoever might be linked to the container.) As they continue their search, the cops might enter a manager's office in the warehouse. They open his small desk drawer and find an illegal handgun. That's an invalid search, even though they were validly in the manager's office. The point is that they're looking for a guy who's hiding, and he can't be hiding in a small desk drawer. In searching the desk drawer, they're going beyond the scope of the exception they were operating under. So with phones, I could see the same exigency argument apply in some cases. For example, if the cops arrest a suspected kidnapper, and have reason to believe his kidnapping victim is in immediate danger, and also have reason to believe that there might be clues about where the victim is being held on the suspect's phone, then they could probably search the phone without a warrant. But the scope of the search would be limited to information that would be useful to find the victim. For example, they might reasonably search the phone's camera or gallery to see if there might be images that would provide clues where the victim is. If they find child porn images during that search, then at least arguably those images can be used as evidence against the suspect on possession charges. They might also reasonably search the phone's call history, email, or text messages if they think there would be information useful for finding the victim (e.g., communications with an accomplice.) But if they decided to open an online banking app on the phone, and discovered that the suspect was also involved in a money laundering scheme from what they learned on the app, then that's probably an invalid search -- it'd be tough to explain how banking information would have lead to discovering the whereabouts of the kidnapping victim. |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
Nice outlining of some of the issues there, MB. Thanks.
On the macro level, of course, warrants after the fact are allowed if it can be shown to have been an immediate danger situation, or if it were otherwise impractical to obtain a warrant at a given point. The secret FISA courts have granted many of these kinds of warrants. And yet, as the Snowden docs reveal, there have been thousands of cases--each of them involving thousands of people in themselves--where such warrants were never obtained by the NSA. There have been many others where the NSA just deliberately violated FISA court rulings. And that's even ignoring the question of the legitimacy of the secret FISA courts in the first place.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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