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George Ledo Magic Café Columnist SF Bay Area 3042 Posts 
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On Jul 7, 2014, Michael Baker wrote: Very possible. I sort of started doing that with my "Magic from the Land of Fantasy" show (which was just before I switched to cards and birds), where everything was "themed" to an Oriental-Arabian-Indian mishmash of styles that I thought (at the time) went together. But I didn't know anything about stage design then, and was just learning about showmanship and presentation, so that was as far as I could get. Today, yeah, if I were to do a prop show, every detail would be designed to fit my theme. I would probably make most of the props myself, but I would also repaint or re-work any pieces I bought. And the backdrops, scenery, costumes -- everything the audience sees -- would also fit into the theme.
That's our departed buddy Burt, aka The Great Burtini, doing his famous Cups and Mice routine
www.georgefledo.net Latest column: "Sorry about the photos in my posts here" |
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Wizard of Oz Inner circle Most people wish I didn't have 5155 Posts
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It would take some doing, but what if your stage set were a magic shop? You would be the magician running the shop and you would hire a child to "act" like she or he is visiting a magic shop for the first time. You could essentially demonstrate the props...
Sounds flat, but if it were themed correctly so there was a connection between the items (a silk perhaps), and the shop truly became a magical experience, the entire show could be pantomime with a touching musical score as accompaniment. The set needn't be complicated...shelves, a counter, a sign that said "Magic Shop." It would give a performer a chance to use all of the apparatus with a perfectly good reason.
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.
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JNeal Inner circle I used to have 999 posts, now I have 1623 Posts
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A couple of thoughts: the most recent posts reinforce what Henry Hay used to suggest in his book "Amateur Magician's Handbook", which is that he wanted you to learn sleight of hand first, so that when you got to the later chapters on apparatus, you would intuitively 'know' how to make it look like magic! Those of us who started with props, moved to seight of hand, and then found we were using props again (later in our development)...learned how to present the stuff most magically.
And finally, as the Wizard of Oz suggests, themeing the props around a magic shop gives them a context, and as done by Fu Manchu some 70 years ago...was the HIT of his full evening show! Great suggestion!
visit me @ JNealShow.com
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Michael Baker Eternal Order Near a river in the Midwest 11172 Posts
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I was just going to mention Fu Manchu's show, but JNeal beat me to it! Other means by which a collection of otherwise eclectic props could be thematically connected would be "The Attic", or "The Antique Shop". Some of you may remember the brilliance of Jonathan Winters. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNTNMIejj4M
A museum curator, or even the owner of a bizarre collection would be characters uniquely suited to working with a strange array of "artifacts". Imagine wandering about the home of The Addams Family. A yard sale might hold promise as a setting for such a "mish-mash" show... so would a pawn shop. Of course, logistics would factor in. Is such a show being designed with the hopes of making a living by performing it? I can think of many, many shows and acts that have been designed with a single or limited performances in mind. Would the performer be willing to schlep around the tonnage sometimes needed to put on such a show? I think it is entirely possible to put together a show of props, regardless of whether they have direct connection to one another, or not. The character, the setting, the theme, and the plot can easily become the connecting factor. As well, there can be a unifying element that is present throughout, in spite of the fact that the various stages of the show as a whole are otherwise disconnected. Read the first sentence here: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088889/ The more we know about what we do, opens our eyes to what we are capable of. Young (beginner) magicians are often great at envisioning grand ideas and recognize no bounds. A lot of them are unable to bring them to fruition because of theatrical immaturity. Fortunately for us, some of them grow beyond that and transcend to a more capable position and hopefully, a more artistic plane.
~michael baker
The Magic Company |
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George Ledo Magic Café Columnist SF Bay Area 3042 Posts
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Or maybe a single trunk full of oddities or old magic props. I'm thinking of "Man of La Mancha," where the characters pulled their props and costumes out of their trunks, which had been conveniently placed in their dungeon. We did something similar recently for a production of "The Woman in Black," where a vintage road trunk served as a horse-drawn cart, table, desk, bed, and storage for a bunch of props.
Or a crate sent back to a museum by an explorer. Think of "The Relic." For a Halloween show, maybe a coffin full of old Halloween props and costume pieces. Could be really creepy.
That's our departed buddy Burt, aka The Great Burtini, doing his famous Cups and Mice routine
www.georgefledo.net Latest column: "Sorry about the photos in my posts here" |
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Michael Baker Eternal Order Near a river in the Midwest 11172 Posts
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Imagine the boxes and crates in the final scene of "Raiders of the Lost Ark". Now imagine going through them.
What about sorting through an estate like Xanadu in "Citizen Kane"? What "Rosebuds" might you save from the fire?
~michael baker
The Magic Company |
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Magic Researcher Elite user 406 Posts
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I see nothing wrong with what Bill's friend bought. The problem is quantity and time. Most of us picked up one or two items per year and mastered a routine for each over time. Since Bill's friend is new to magic, he will not have time to develop great routines for each item on the list. So it is necessary to break things down a bit.
The friend must decide where he wants to perform, the length of show, type of show, and his character. The easiest place to start is by grouping the apparatus into manageable groups. All sucker tricks go in one group, all ball tricks in another, all silk tricks in another, illusions, etc. Since the guy is a beginner, he would probably do best with selecting one trick from each group. These items could then be arranged in an order so that none conflicts with another in needing preparation. If one trick requires an empty pocket, another using that pocket may have to be placed behind or after the first in order for both to be in the same show. At this point, things become manageable and routines can be learned. The first act develops. Later down the road, a new set of tricks might be selected. These new tricks could merely substitute types of effects - one sucker effect for another. This way the friend would already have a show format that works and the new tricks could be worked in one at a time until mastered. Eventually several acts or shows could be available to the friend. What he has purchased could serve him well over the years as he learned about presentation, showmanship, etc. MR
Repeating a falsehood often and loudly does not make it true.
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MGordonB Loyal user Toronto, Canada 279 Posts
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On Jul 2, 2014, Payne wrote: I'm not whether to laugh or cry. Is this for real? |
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billappleton Inner circle Los Gatos, California 1154 Posts
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Holy cow a guy goes on vacation and his little post causes a schism in the magic world!
No worries I was trying to point out that if you have quite a few props, they either fit backstage and you have to bring them out, or if backstage space is limited, you can place them out where people can see them I agree that the performer is more important than the prop, although that changes a little when you build all your own props, I'm not a big fan of lots of store bought stuff, and so I'm hoping the props reflect the performer as well And after all, this is the bags tubes and boxes forum, so let's go on the working assumption that there are a boatload of props and you might not have an assistant or revolving stage. I thought Bill H was asking a practical question. So enjoying the conversation carry on |
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sirbrad Inner circle PA 2097 Posts
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On Jul 3, 2014, Payne wrote: Or maybe you are just a tool to your props and you just don't know it.  Why can't they be stars too? Why does it always have to be about the egotistical magician? Personally I think the audience members are the stars, the paying clients, the props and I provide the entertainment. I control them all but they also do their part as well. All that matters is if the audience was entertained and that they had a great time. They don't think that deeply about the "magician and his props", and who was the star of the show. This is classic magician over-thinking. The show is the star 2nd to the audience, and in its entirety. You still need the props unless you want to bore the audience quickly pulling off your thumb.
The great trouble with magicians is the fact that they believe when they have bought a certain trick or piece of apparatus, and know the method or procedure, that they are full-fledged mystifiers. -- Harry Houdini
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chmara Inner circle Tucson, AZ 1911 Posts
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I have taken serious note of Uncle Harry's suggestion to put up segments of my various corporate traveling acts -- and was, just last night -- going back in the (age showing) cassette tapes used for music. I have also been packing to move to smaller quarters and have found video tapes and rough takes of segments of various shows tucked away in odd places -- I have never been well organized.
It will probably be another 30-40 days before I finish just packing and moving while selling off props, furniture and collectables -- and then face rewiring computer/entertainment center rigs and unpacking 50 years of stuff that's left. After that, I will see if I have the stuff to put together something other than my old promo tape from 20 years ago..... But, I note several people here have listed some of the props they have used -- and see the similarities in tools. Of course the lists are much larger than one would use in any one show -- but indicate that with good management many could be synchronized into a rich presentation with good visual stimulation and focus. If an assistant is used, this can be a practiced piece of pastry -- but a true one man show presents its own challenges in prop management and handling. A majopr consideration need not be props, but tables used and position. Often I worked (one man) with three tables and a trunk-like drop box along with two Jet Sets (empty) to eventually display large silks and other "hanging" productions. I always had one table that was waste high, and at least one that was low chest high. If I showed hop and was working a flat floor where the audience was seated at tables or on the same level as the dance floor performing area, the higher table became the demostration table to permit those seated away from the front to see what was going on without having to crane their neck or stand. I then, if possible, tried to use a piece of advice that Jeff McBride has given many people, inclmudingme. Use your hand props to frame your face. Bring that die box up to shoulder height as you make the moves -- let the audience see your prop AND your face. It is also high enough to be seen from the back. Let me also say, that as good as I am at giving advice -- I took a long time to learn to use my own advice, respect the fine thoughts of my teachers and then make many errors that I could have avoided if I had let my ego get out of the way. From Fr,. Daniel Roland (another McBride student and associate) I learned that by producing something beautiful, you need to display it for the audience to enjoy it -- and not ditch it to get to the next trick. With one man shows that takes practice in timing because there is no assistant to to create a flourish or motion to the item as either a highlight or a misdirection. I said earlier -- never turn your back on the audience to get a prop or dump one. It took Emory Williams Jr. of Williams Magic to spot the fact that at one crucial point in my shoe burning routine - I was turning, not full back -- but just enough to flash the crucial gimmick for that step one time out of three. This lead me to reposition and mark where the props were with more precision. It wass about that time I noticed that young people in some audiences were not focusing on the trick at hand -- but had eyes scanning all the goodies on stage, A bunch of black silks and covers for the tables and props stopped that. With bigger props when no front-back curtains were available and it was not possible to roll an illusion from an out of sight position off stage -- a big piece of black cloth would cover the prop until I unveiled it like a monument in a national park. And, if possible -- get the audience members to handle the props or become involved in the routine in a way that invests them with the magical powers. Give the powers away, give the applause away -- but not the secret. You will be rewarded.
Gregg (C. H. Mara) Chmara
Commercial Operations, LLC Tucson, AZ C. H. Mara Illusion & Psychic Entertainments |
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sirbrad Inner circle PA 2097 Posts
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On Jul 4, 2014, billappleton wrote: As a kid what attracted me to magic was the magical, mysterious looking props on stage. Others also were attracted to them and wondered what they did, or what they were used for. So they generate interest even on their own. No one left until they were all used. The magician just brings them to life when the time comes.
The great trouble with magicians is the fact that they believe when they have bought a certain trick or piece of apparatus, and know the method or procedure, that they are full-fledged mystifiers. -- Harry Houdini
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JNeal Inner circle I used to have 999 posts, now I have 1623 Posts
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There is no doubt that the unusual props can generate interest on their own.
What the 'savvy' showman does, is attempt to control what the audience sees and remembers ... and eliminate distractions from competing sources of interest.
visit me @ JNealShow.com
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sirbrad Inner circle PA 2097 Posts
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On Jul 4, 2014, Dick Oslund wrote: And what exactly are YOU doing? You are using props for your show yet you don't want to give them any credit as it is all about "you". But the fact is that without the props your show would be quite boring. As far as misdirection goes sometimes those shiny props provide better misdirection than you ever could, especially if you know how to use them to your advantage. I want attention on my "show" not just me or just my props. We are all a complete unity of entertainment and need each other. You can have the best presentation and showmanship in the world but you still need those props no matter how big or small. They generate attention on their own just sitting there, and that is not a bad thing. I don't need attention just on "me" I want attention on the "magic" that is happening. Quote:
On Jul 10, 2014, JNeal wrote: Yeah exactly. I used such props for 30 years and still do occasionally, even with all the close-up I do people love seeing props, even "magical" ones contrary to what purists seem to believe who only use "normal" objects due to an obsessive fear of suspicion. I went through that phase too about 20 years. Now I use what works and what I know the audience will enjoy based on past results. Quote:
On Jul 5, 2014, jakeg wrote: Exactly that is the point I made. The "show" is what matters in the end not what or who received more attention. Quote:
On Jul 6, 2014, Ray Chelt wrote: Yeah you would think that this "friend" would just post himself if he is into magic that much to buy all of that. But here on the Café is always safer to have someone else post for you, or at least make it look like that until you find the "approval" you are seeking. 
The great trouble with magicians is the fact that they believe when they have bought a certain trick or piece of apparatus, and know the method or procedure, that they are full-fledged mystifiers. -- Harry Houdini
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Dick Oslund Inner circle 8357 Posts
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On Jul 10, 2014, sirbrad wrote: Well sirbrad! You are certainly entitled to your opinion. Now just scroll up to the requote just above. --I stand by my statement. BTW: How many (paid) shows have you done? J. B. Bobo and I once compared notes, and we both estimated we had done about 20,000. I was booked by the top Lyceum bureaus in the U.S., and was rebooked many times. How many years have you been on the road, coast to coast and border to border? I have 36 years, playing every combination of levels Kindergarten thru Senior Highs,and many of them were repeat dates, more than once. --plus many colleges and univerities. For magicians I have played and lectured at three national conventions. I can't remember how may regional conventions I have lectured and performed at. I have lectured all over North America, some groups numerous times. I have lectured at THE MAGIC CASTLE twice, and also played a week there. I have played shopping malls and I've done trade shows. Dick Oslund Sneaky, underhanded, devious & sureptitious itinerant mountebanc Lyceum bureaus keep records! On my first tour for North Dakota State Univetrsity Division of Independent Study, my program had the highest score (from school administrators) than ANY MAGICIAN THAT HAD EVER PLAYED THEIR CIRCUIT. P.S.
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
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hugmagic Inner circle 7665 Posts
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And worked a gorilla show!!!.
Dick has the chops to back what he says. His style was not the style of every school performer but it worked for him brilliantly. If you want to read about different styles, look at the chapter Dick wrote for Kid Stuff 5 on all the magicians that worked school shows and you will see a wide variety of styles. With equipment and without. Read the Bobo magic show book to see how to make a show instead of a collection of tricks. One may not always agree with the comments, but you have to respect those that have made their living 100% doing this. Richard
Richard E. Hughes, Hughes Magic Inc., 352 N. Prospect St., Ravenna, OH 44266 (330)296-4023
www.hughesmagic.com email-hugmagic@raex.com Write direct as I will be turning off my PM's. |
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sirbrad Inner circle PA 2097 Posts
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That is fine I stand by mine as well. I have done as many paid shows as I needed over the past 33 years, and frankly having more pad shows does not necessarily make you a better performer I know many mediocre performers who do shows 300 days a year but they are also miserable and not in too good of health, but they are making a living albeit miserably. I don;t need to name drop or engage in a ****ing match whatever works do it, that is what I have done for my entire life and with great success, and not in just magic but other talents and hobbies as well. But we are not talking about that, we are talking about magicians wanting to take all the credit even though they rely on props to tell a story. I am not on the Café to try and impress other magicians with my experience, awards, and how many shows I have done. Many here already do that full-time on the forums, I only care about impressing my paying customers. I only come here to share ideas and viewpoints. But in most cases it is all about "them" and their opinion anyway.
So it would be pointless to engage in unnecessary rhetoric as said individuals are already deeply entrenched in their own thinking, and express nothing more than disinterested superiority... Quote:
On Jul 10, 2014, hugmagic wrote: And so have I, and continue to do so. What other magicians have accomplished means little to me with the exception of the ones that I know and learn from, and the ones who wrote all of the books that I have read over three decades. So big deal. But my point is there is no right answer, and that props do a lot more than most magician's frail egos want to give them credit for. What is the average person going to be more attracted to, a magician standing alone on a stage or a magicians with a stage full of gleaming props? I just think it is ridiculous many magicians think it should be all about them just standing there and that the audience should be mesmerized by their presence alone. Let's get real, it is a magic show and they want to see magic. They don't give a crap about you or your accolades they just want to be entertained. So you try and find the perfect balance of you AND your props to make one show, in unity. The show and the impact it has on an audience is all that matters not just you and how great you know you are. So that is my "opinion" and what has worked for me for over 30 years now and will continue to work. If making it all about you works then fine, even if in reality you are using props and are in denial about it, keep doing it if it works. But unless you have real magic powers you are not going to be very entertaining without them. You can only pull your thumb off and do the Balducci Levitation so many times. But another thing that irks me is posts like Dick's are also usually all about them also, and they are not interested in any difference of opinion only agreements which to me exhibits insecurity and close-mindedness. But we see that all day and night on here. But like I said whatever works for YOU. When get down to it though it doesn't really matter what other magicians on a forum think anyway, they are not writing your checks. It just makes for some interesting debates.
The great trouble with magicians is the fact that they believe when they have bought a certain trick or piece of apparatus, and know the method or procedure, that they are full-fledged mystifiers. -- Harry Houdini
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Dick Oslund Inner circle 8357 Posts
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Now to reply to your "indictment" of my show and the way I present it--even though you have never seen it!
My PROPS get no credit. The TRICKS that I perform, using those props, help me to ENTERTAIN my audiences. I use those PROPS, plus SHOWMANSHIP & PRESENTATION, as CREATIVE TOOLS to ENTERTAIN. ENTERTAINMENT doesn't "come" by the pound or by the yard, ENTERTAINMENT "comes" by the "OOH", "AHH", CHUCKLE AND LAUGH. School administrators who buy my program send a report on the program to my manager. I cannot recall even ONE principal complaining on few props that I used in presenting my program. I have thousands of comments complimenting me on how well I held their students interest and how well they were entertained. My manager in booking the program, has told the school people that I use a minimum of props, and a maximum of showmanship. Many have commented specifically--and positively-- on how FEW PHYSICAL PROPS that I used. They usually say that they were amazed at how well their students were entertained with such simple things. None have ever complained of my boring the students. My props provide color and flash and physical existence which helps provide illustrations. I provide the misdirection, the humor and the excitement. My props don't generate attention just sitting there. Generating attention is MY JOB! My props are out of sight until they are needed in the performance, and they go back out of sight when they are no longer needed. If you need props as crutches to misdirect, I would suggest studying Maskelynne and Devant ("OUR MAGIC") Henning Nelms ("MAGIC & SHOWMANSHIP") Ken Weber ("Maximum Entertainment") Dariel Fitzkee ("SHOWMANSHIP FOR MAGICIANS") David Bamberg's chapter on "staging" in "GREATER MAGIC") Dick Oslund The "magic" ONLY HAPPENS IN THE MIND(S) OF THE AUDIENCE. --and, it's generally a momentary experience.
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
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sirbrad Inner circle PA 2097 Posts
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That is fine if it works for you, my props are not the highlight either but they still important. But your way is not the only way, nothing in magic is universal and it varies from individual to individual. My audience gives me all the credit also as I do most of the work and they don't think in terms of "props". However I feel they deserve some credit whether the audience does or not. But that is just me thinking, perhaps "over-thinking" not them. They are a part of me and my "show" as a whole and I get the credit anyway so it doesn't matter. But in my case I don't think of my props as being separate they are part of the show as much as I am. They may be used briefly to illustrate a point but they are still essential for that purpose, to think otherwise is just living in denial. But if it works who cares? It is all in your own head anyway.
Oh yeah I have already read those books many times, I would suggest that you find your own style that works for you. But I am surprised that you actually give books credit for your magnificence, albeit in condescending way. I have a collection of over 1,000 books in magic alone, collected over 34 years now.
The great trouble with magicians is the fact that they believe when they have bought a certain trick or piece of apparatus, and know the method or procedure, that they are full-fledged mystifiers. -- Harry Houdini
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JNeal Inner circle I used to have 999 posts, now I have 1623 Posts
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I NEVER got the sense from Dick Oslund that he needs to brag or boast of his credentials.
Instead, I find he and others (including Bill Hegbli) donate an awful lot of time and energy towards directing Café' members to sources, materials and the best advice available. His stories and anecdotes do not appear to me to be boasting, they expand my understanding of magic and reinforce what my own experience has taught me. To me, his credibility comes from the fact that what he says rings 'true' with my own efforts, plus the fact that he is so well respected by other professional performers.
visit me @ JNealShow.com
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Posted: Jul 7, 2014 05:25 pm 
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