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mastermindreader
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I wonder what Jesus would have said about this? (Or even the Dalai Lama or John Lennon, for that matter. Imagine.)
tommy
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What is the official line now as to why Al Qaida sent these fanatics over to attack the USA on 9/11 in the first place?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Jul 10, 2014, mastermindreader wrote:
How many problems in today's world are based on the belief that some people's lives are inherently more valuable than others?



Thank you for putting my point in focus.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
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Quote:
On Jul 10, 2014, General_Magician wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 10, 2014, mastermindreader wrote:
How many problems in today's world are based on the belief that some people's lives are inherently more valuable than others?



Unfortunately Bob, the world just isn't going to come together around the camp fire and sing "We are the World" and all the sudden get along and start valuing each others lives equally. Things just don't work that way. It would be nice if things worked that way, but, they don't.

Well that competition keeps getting tighter.

So according to your logic ( And I use the term in the broadest possible sense.) the only two choices are to be campfire buddies or destroy the others? There is no middle ground?

Are you certain you read The Art of War? I don't think it means what you think it means.

I am getting that headache also.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
imgic
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Quote:
On Jul 10, 2014, AllAboutMagic wrote:
Imgic, I know you have a migrane but I'd love to hear your thoughts. I know you served.

What about you Anderson? Or any of the other combat vets on here? Do you feel the same way?


I've refrained from any in depth posts for a few reasons:
1. From previous discussions, GM is dismissive of my service record.
2. From previous discussions, I've noticed the only person who can can GM's view, is GM, and I won't waste time or energy trying to sway him, or engage in serious thought.
3. Lastly, what value is there to this thread? GM started with comments on a link about a Special Ops officer who was noted for "going native"...okay, that was interesting. But it went into discussions of Lawrence of Arabia, Sun Tzu, Books that were unread, but discussed on the merit of their title along, and then into the use of nukes. It was disjointed, illogical, and was actually physical painful to read.

So I'll sit on the sidelines, and like a car wreck...will continue to look at it...
"Imagination is more important than knowledge."
General_Magician
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Quote:
I've refrained from any in depth posts for a few reasons:
1. From previous discussions, GM is dismissive of my service record.
2. From previous discussions, I've noticed the only person who can can GM's view, is GM, and I won't waste time or energy trying to sway him, or engage in serious thought.
3. Lastly, what value is there to this thread? GM started with comments on a link about a Special Ops officer who was noted for "going native"...okay, that was interesting. But it went into discussions of Lawrence of Arabia, Sun Tzu, Books that were unread, but discussed on the merit of their title along, and then into the use of nukes. It was disjointed, illogical, and was actually physical painful to read.

So I'll sit on the sidelines, and like a car wreck...will continue to look at it...


You mean you are dismissive of my service record imgic. I think you got your facts mixed up and are projecting a little bit. And just because you have made a career out of the Air Force doesn't mean I am going to automatically respect you. Seen plenty of career officers and enlisted men who haven't earned respect and put the well being of their men second to getting a promotion. I believe in taking care of my fellow soldiers first. You are not entitled to respect anymore than anybody else. You have to earn my respect.

Personally I don't put a lot of stock in career military folks. Too many trying to get themselves promoted at the expense of their men and too many trying to play politics (and in some cases playing un-necessary politics with the lives of their men). It's one of the reasons why I chose not to make the military my career when my term was up and after getting my honorable discharge, starting my own business and living life on my terms instead of on the terms of some incompetent career leader who wants to get promoted or play politics. Putting my destiny in my hands rather than in the hands of people like you. So screw you too!
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown

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tommy
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Speaking of irony, Washington claimed the Afghan occupation was to fight `Islamic terrorism,’ liberate women, build schools, and promote democracy, which were the same claims made by the Soviets when they occupied Afghanistan from 1979 and it was the Washington who created Al Quaida . Al Qaeda was or is a USA intelligence construct, which recruits mercenaries and fanatics which are used by Washington to destabilize and destroy sovereign countries among other things.
We know now the Washington were sending these mercenaries and fanatics into Russia to commit `Islamic terrorism,’ to provoke the Russians into invading Afghanistan. Washington were financing training and arming these Islamic terrorists. We also know that Washington decided to invade Afghanistan six months before 9/11 over the pipeline deal. We know Al Qaida fled to Pakistan and the US invaded Afghanistan and stayed on to built bases adjacent to the planned pipeline route and installed former Unocal `consultant’ Hamid Karzai as leader. We know the Taliban knew nothing about the 9/11 attacks until after they happened but we do know Washington had foreknowledge. We know a lot of things now we didn't know before. What we don't know is where these caves are: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGhGHxw0mSo
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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AllAboutMagic
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Quote:
On Jul 10, 2014, General_Magician wrote:
Quote:
I've refrained from any in depth posts for a few reasons:
1. From previous discussions, GM is dismissive of my service record.
2. From previous discussions, I've noticed the only person who can can GM's view, is GM, and I won't waste time or energy trying to sway him, or engage in serious thought.
3. Lastly, what value is there to this thread? GM started with comments on a link about a Special Ops officer who was noted for "going native"...okay, that was interesting. But it went into discussions of Lawrence of Arabia, Sun Tzu, Books that were unread, but discussed on the merit of their title along, and then into the use of nukes. It was disjointed, illogical, and was actually physical painful to read.

So I'll sit on the sidelines, and like a car wreck...will continue to look at it...


You mean you are dismissive of my service record imgic. I think you got your facts mixed up and are projecting a little bit. And just because you have made a career out of the Air Force doesn't mean I am going to automatically respect you. Seen plenty of career officers and enlisted men who haven't earned respect and put the well being of their men second to getting a promotion. I believe in taking care of my fellow soldiers first. You are not entitled to respect anymore than anybody else. You have to earn my respect.

Personally I don't put a lot of stock in career military folks. Too many trying to get themselves promoted at the expense of their men and too many trying to play politics (and in some cases playing un-necessary politics with the lives of their men). It's one of the reasons why I chose not to make the military my career when my term was up and after getting my honorable discharge, starting my own business and living life on my terms instead of on the terms of some incompetent career leader who wants to get promoted or play politics. Putting my destiny in my hands rather than in the hands of people like you. So screw you too!



That sounds exactly like something someone would say if they couldn't get promoted. I feel real bad for you and your outlook on things. What was the other reasons......zero chance for career advancement? You seem to have some pretty severe anger issues and animosity toward others. Imgic I think it's a compliment that you don't have Private Magicians respect. After reading his last post, along with many others from him, I don't think I would want his respect neither. Thank you for your choice to serve your country as a career. That has to be much harder than a one and done. No disrespect to those who did one enlistment, but unlike others, I put a lot of stock into those who chose to spend their lives defending our country. (I have noticed that the career vets talk much less about their service than the non career vets)
imgic
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As soon as I hit the enter button, I knew I'd regret posting...

GM, I did not attack you, or get personal. I was asked why I wasn't posting, and I pointed out that in the past we've had differences and it was clear you didn't respect me. Also, as others have pointed out, that you've very opinionated, and I wasn't going to change your mind on anything. Lastly that I thought the discussion was disjointed. No where did I show you any disrespect or make any disparaging comments about you. In fact, I've made it a point to give you wide berth on the Café. I tried making some constructive comments on the house buying and investment threads you've started...remaining as objective and as neutral as possible. If I remember correctly, GM, you were banned for a bit after you previously lit into me. Neither of us should be wasting time and energy on such things. The Café should first be about magic, with a bit of fun in the NVMS forum. I did not mean to rile you up.

AAM, thank you for the kind words. I was not a career officer. I did 8 years active duty, then 20 years in the Guard and Reserves, in both Army and Air Force. Guardsmen, and Reservists, such a GM and myself, often work full time, attend Guard duty, then find themselves deployed for long periods. The juggling act is often more challenging than those who are on active duty.

GM, again, apologies if I put a burr under your saddle...there was no intent of malice.
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AllAboutMagic
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Well you were still a career serviceman! I guess I took issue with Private Magician's narrow minded view of those who make a career out of serving their country.
w_s_anderson
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Don't take stock in my career AAM......Oddly enough it has all been done with the expectation of promotions and the ability to play military politics! Smile With one more year to go until retirement eligibility I think I can play my Brigade like "House of Cards!"

All kidding aside, I decided to not join the fray once the topic switched from the original post. I know how good you are at bating folks and setting the hook. Smile My world views are a lot different than General Magician's, as well as my thoughts on military matters. We have had vastly different experiences during our time in the service. He has stated before he spent his time in the lower enlisted ranks, where I had started there then after 2 years move to the non-commissioned officer ranks, and after 8 years in I went to Officer Candidate School and became a commissioned warrant officer. I don't see the army as he sees it, but I have had the opportunity of serving in multiple leadership roles and I had had I follow orders as well as give them.

We all know General is very opinionated.....lol....even he knows it. What works for him doesn't have to work for you, and that's ok. I think you misunderstand him, or you just like stirring the pot. He is a good guy, he loves his country, and he blazes his own trail. We may not agree with some or many of his views on things but in this free country he is free to believe and feel however he pleases. That's what makes this place so great.
Dannydoyle
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Imagic I not only respect your record but you as a person. Probably does not matter much to you but there it is.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
General_Magician
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It's Ok, don't worry about it imgic. You don't seem like such a bad guy after all. My apologies as well if you felt I disrespected you. As far as the home buying, I did listen to you, but I don't agree with you. It's not a big deal though. But don't think I didn't listen to you. I did. It's just I am very wary of any kind of debt and I think there is a better way to own a home rather than going into debt.

I don't always jive very well with civilian society since my return home, which is another reason why I started my own business. That way I can work, pay taxes and contribute to society and still keep a sense of self worth. I still have to keep a bit of a cocoon to protect myself from civilians. Owning my own business gives me some sense of self worth and some level of protection from civilians and enables me to contribute to society.

I still keep in a touch with my Sergent I served with. The guy lived in hotel rooms when we first got back. He was a good Sergent. Love him like a brother. I would jump on a grenade for him in a second. I hated seeing the guy living in hotel rooms. Last time I saw him at Best Buy in Warner Robins (you said you were stationed at RAFB, so are you famaliar with the Best Buy in Warner Robins? ) things have been going better for him. I am glad that they are and he is no longer living in hotel rooms. I tell him I brag about him. He was like "Really!?" and I am like "Yeah man!" He probably thinks I am crazy LOL! He is no longer in either, but he wanted to make a career out of the Guard. I laughed at him.

I was never much of a career military guy. You got know how to play some serious politics to be a career military guy plus I am happiest when I can drum to my own beat and you can't do that in the service. I was proud to be able to serve my country though during a time of war though I paid a heavy price for doing so (guess it just comes with the territory). For me, it's about the man. Looking out for the guy next to you and getting home alive. I'm not much of a fan of officers. A few non-coms I like, but I don't much care for officers. Well maybe two officers I like, one prior enlisted and my team OIC. The prior enlisted officer really did a good job of setting the example while my team OIC look out for us and kept us alive.

Anyway, sorry if I came across the wrong way imgic. I'd buy you a beer though I don't drink alcohol myself (I used to but not anymore since the VA started me on meds several years ago as part of my treatment for PTSD, the meds have been really good for me, ever since I started on the meds, I have very little desire for alcohol). Getting banned is no big deal. Sometimes it happens and you just have to drive on. Just like dealing with civilians. It sucks sometimes, but you just have to drive on and keep trucking. I've had a few civilians hit me pretty good and trigger my PTSD. I would go into deep depression after some civilian hit my PTSD button for a few weeks. Some are just ignorant and don't know any better, but I used to be like them.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown

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Salguod Nairb
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Image


I'm prior service and I have been in the Middle East and Asia for the last 11 years fighting the good fight, but instead of breaking out the ruler (which seems to be a common occurrence on here) I just rather post a silly gif or two.
We shall meet in the place where there is no darkness...
General_Magician
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I remember before my time in the service, a few guys talking about how they would make fun of this Vietnam Vet. Talking about "French Fry Ally" and making fun of him and such and the Nam vet would just go into outer space and they would laugh at him. Soon they stopped because they were starting to get worried for him because I think they recognized they were really putting this Nam vet into a stupor or something. Now that I have been home, had a few civilians do that to me and send me into "outer space." I didn't fully appreciate or realize what they were doing to this Nam vet but now I do since it's been done to me a few times. So now I have a much deeper appreciation as to what that Nam vet was enduring. They were really being mean and insensitive to the guy and not realizing that they were. That's why, I just prefer to limit my contact with civilians.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown

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mastermindreader
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During the Vietnam era a lot of us never stopped thinking of ourselves as civilians.
General_Magician
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Quote:
On Jul 11, 2014, mastermindreader wrote:
During the Vietnam era a lot of us never stopped thinking of ourselves as civilians.



Well this particular Nam vet from what I understand saw a lot of combat and he was pretty messed up from it but I don't think most people truly appreciated what he went through and survived. I have a much deeper appreciation now though for him and some of the mental wounds he suffered. Some of the guys I overheard talking about him were worried that he might commit suicide because they didn't realize they were pushing some of his PTSD buttons. So, they were more careful around him. The Nam vet didn't know it though but they were. Civilians can be very mean.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown

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General_Magician
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That sounds exactly like something someone would say if they couldn't get promoted. I feel real bad for you and your outlook on things. What was the other reasons......zero chance for career advancement? You seem to have some pretty severe anger issues and animosity toward others. Imgic I think it's a compliment that you don't have Private Magicians respect. After reading his last post, along with many others from him, I don't think I would want his respect neither. Thank you for your choice to serve your country as a career. That has to be much harder than a one and done. No disrespect to those who did one enlistment, but unlike others, I put a lot of stock into those who chose to spend their lives defending our country. (I have noticed that the career vets talk much less about their service than the non career vets)


I didn't give a darn about getting promoted. If I was full time active duty, I might have cared then because that would have been my sole source of income. Guard pay isn't that much. For some people though, that's what they wanted. Guard is not really like a career choice where you are going to make a lot of money even if you got promoted (unless you were full time Guard) but it is a great way to get your college paid for. That being said I was just happy to serve my country (and having my college paid for was an added bonus). I could care less if you want my respect because I know what I have done and don't feel the need to prove anything to you.

If I know I have done some pretty cool stuff but you don't respect me, why would I care? What would be the big deal to me if you didn't want my respect? It's like, "So what?!" I am pretty secure in myself in that regard. All you are interested in doing is just razing somebody. It's not like you are going to try to understand or fully appreciate everything I am going to talk about so why should I take your opinions seriously? My job was to do as I was told when I was told and look out for my buddies and my goal was also to get myself back home alive. I accomplished that. I did what I had to do. Yes, we lost a few guys, but it wasn't because of any sort of mistake or negligence on my part. That was due to the enemy. IEDs are tough to defend against. In this regard, from the statements of "The Lawrence of Afghanistan" who said he never lost a man under his command, he has a better record.

I am also not the only one from my unit that came down with a legitimate case of PTSD. We had one guy who we served with who was a police officer and when he got back home was a little too trigger happy while on duty as a cop and lost his job. He done more than his fair share battling Chechen mercenaries and I have little doubt that his trigger happiness came from his tour. He's lucky that's all he got was fired from his job as a cop, but I know the real reason why he got fired and maybe the police department did too and was trying to cut him a break by just only firing him instead of criminal charges. Then their was my Sergent. He had it as well. Another guy who had multiple tours in my unit committed suicide. Then there was my best buddy who over there who was a cop. The tour was rough on him. I had no doubt he came down with PTSD though I don't know if he was ever diagnosed officially with it. He lives in another state. But were good friends and looked out for each other. All about looking out for each other.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown

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imgic
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Quote:
On Jul 10, 2014, Dannydoyle wrote:
Imagic I not only respect your record but you as a person. Probably does not matter much to you but there it is.


It does, as I respect you as well. You're a pretty straight forward guy, and I like that. In fact it was your facebook thread that made me re-think how I interact on The Magic Café. You posted you had created a facebook page, and I (along with others) was convinced you should have advice on how to capitalize facebook. Then thought it was quite rude you weren't taking our experience and insight. Then you simply said, "Hey folks, I just said I started a facebook page, that's it...not looking for help." I realized how much time, and energy I spent on that thread, how much turmoil was created, and all for something the original poster didn't want.

So I cut back on looking at NVMS section, try to look at other areas that pertain to magic, and try to cause less churn. After all, I'm not going to change anyone's mind on anything, and so I'll kick back and try to have a bit more fun...

Cheers all...
"Imagination is more important than knowledge."
AllAboutMagic
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@ W_S_ Anderson - How dare you accuse me of being a pot stirrer!

@ Private Magician - I truly wish you didn't care so much! Your posts would be much easier to read with a lot less rambling. I'm sorry you have PTS, but what on earth does that have to do with this thread? I respect what you did for our country, I don't respect your opinions or your points of view. Well I respect your ideas on myfitnesspal.com and some of your investment ideas. You have proven to be a very closed minded individual on here. And you are correct, I won't try to listen to your point of view on why it would be ok to nuke Afghanistan. That shows that you are just as fundamentalist as those you were fighting......and as an American that is pretty sad.
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