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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
"Eyes Over Compton: How Police Spied on a Whole City"
In a secret test of mass surveillance technology, the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department sent a civilian aircraft* over Compton, California, capturing high-resolution video of everything that happened inside that 10-square-mile municipality. Compton residents weren't told about the spying, which happened in 2012. "We literally watched all of Compton during the times that we were flying, so we could zoom in anywhere within the city of Compton and follow cars and see people," Ross McNutt of Persistence Surveillance Systems told the Center for Investigative Reporting, which unearthed and did the first reporting on this important story. The technology he's trying to sell to police departments all over America can stay aloft for up to six hours. Like Google Earth, it enables police to zoom in on certain areas. And like TiVo, it permits them to rewind, so that they can look back and see what happened anywhere they weren't watching in real time.... Sgt. Douglas Iketani acknowledges that his agency hid the experiment to avoid public opposition. "This system was kind of kept confidential from everybody in the public," he said. "A lot of people do have a problem with the eye in the sky, the Big Brother, so to mitigate those kinds of complaints we basically kept it pretty hush hush." http://www.theatlantic.com/national/arch....../360954/ Certainly, the sensitivity of Sgt. Iketani for instinctively protecting residents' easily bruised feelings is heartwarming. Thanks, Big Bro!
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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Salguod Nairb Room 101 0 Posts |
Just like Google Earth!
We shall meet in the place where there is no darkness...
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
Uhhh...no. Otherwise the Police Dept would have just used Google Earth and saved themselves some trouble. Nice try, though.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Is there a reasonable expectation of privacy when you are outdoors and in public?
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
Quote:
On Jul 9, 2014, mastermindreader wrote: Are there more options than total privacy and thorough surveillance?
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
I'm sure there are all kinds of US case law that says cops can surveil in public all they want and so on.
To me, however, there is a huge difference between a cop following someone for a brief period without a warrant, and following everybody's movements all the time, captured on digital media. And the good Sgt. evidently instinctively knew it was different, or else he wouldn't have tried to hide it.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Yes. Instinctively I know that it's different, too. There are many major cities that come to mind that do the exact same thing with street level surveillance cameras that cover virtually every area in a city. (London, for example.)
The question, though, is trying to precisely define the difference and whether or not tracking someone's movements might well be a violation of privacy even if those movements take place in public. Seems like a difficult question to me. "The reasonable expectation of privacy" standard may well need to be revisited in view of the technological advances of the last decade or so. |
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silvercup Loyal user 223 Posts |
Reasonable is a cop out word.
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
It's the word that is at the center of all legal interpretation, whether you like it or not.
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Quote:
On Jul 9, 2014, silvercup wrote: What would you use instead?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Quote:
On Jul 9, 2014, LobowolfXXX wrote: Do you think there is a reasonable alternative? |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
"Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, my client is not guilty by reason of self-defense. We all can agree that he had an unreasonable fear for his own safety..."
"We the jury find that there was no negligence, as the defendant took the same amount of care that any unreasonable person would have..."
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Without the legal standard of "the reasonable man," you might as well throw out centuries of Western jurisprudence.
I'd suggest that Reason should always be the standard, and that it opposite, Faith, is the cop-out. |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
London is the worst of the big cities. Under Bloomberg and his Police commissioner Kelly, NYC was very close behind. I'm not sure what the current situation is.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
I imagine that years ago you had a reasonable expectation of privacy if you were sunbathing naked on the roof of a penthouse atop a skyscraper.
Seems like aerial surveillance pretty much takes away that expectancy. |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
It seems to me that one cannot expect privacy regarding activities that any member of the public could observe with their unaided five senses. Once you add high tech surveillance and techniques that enhance the senses (telescopes, etc.), however, I believe the situation changes.
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lunatik Inner circle 3209 Posts |
Quote:
On Jul 9, 2014, mastermindreader wrote: Hahaha nice!
"Don't let your Dreams become Fantasies"
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silvercup Loyal user 223 Posts |
Quote:
On Jul 9, 2014, LobowolfXXX wrote: Be precise. Reasonable is far too loose that's all. I realize it's tough to be precise and all but a law should be precise not left up to someone's interpretation. |
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silvercup Loyal user 223 Posts |
Quote:
On Jul 9, 2014, mastermindreader wrote: Doesn't make it proper. I don't like murder, doesn't make it proper. What came after the comma was unnecessary. |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
No, it was necessary, because it is clear you don't like the word and consider it a cop-out. (But you, no doubt, found it necessary to call my use of the word a cop-out.)
Murder is a thing, a noun. Reasonable, on the other hand, is a concept that is at the foundation of our legal system. And it's definition is far from "loose" if you understand the legal interpretation of the word, as in this definition of the "reasonable person" standard. Quote:
...the "reasonable person" is not an average person or a typical person. Instead, the "reasonable person" is a composite of a relevant community's judgment as to how a typical member of said community should behave in situations that might pose a threat of harm (through action or inaction) to the public.[3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reasonable_person |
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