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NotSoWise![]() New user victoria,bc 73 Posts ![]() |
Hi,
I know this is a pretty geographically-focused question, but I expect it's the same in many other jurisdictions. Here, in BC, it's illegal to have lock picks (except accredited/employed/insured locksmiths) and handcuffs (except accredited/trained/employed/insured security guards). Locksmiths aren't allowed to also be security guards, so being allowed to have both picks and handcuffs is not legally possible. Is not using picks a real setback in terms of what you can perform? I've seen many videos of people doing "lockpicking" w/o a TW so I expect most are spirit locks. How many people here actually pick on-stage? How many use real (instead of gimmicked) handcuffs? I was not able to find legislation on straitjackets - however, I know that Posey jackets state that they can only be sold to/owned/used under a doctor's prescription (is this just Posey or all types like Humane and "replicas"?). Does this affect your performance - for example, putting a spectator in a jacket would seem to be quite illegal. Thanks. Please excuse my naivete! |
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jay leslie![]() V.I.P. Southern California 9502 Posts ![]() |
Riles rules and more stupid rules.
It's about the same everywhere with poorly written regs that are not thought through. You can't be a locksmith and a security guard - would violate the 1st amendment here. And yes, It's getting harder and harder to get jackets. I'm gearing-up to make them and will sell to anyone who want's one.
Jay Leslie
www.TheHouseOfEnchantment.com |
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NotSoWise![]() New user victoria,bc 73 Posts ![]() |
The laws are quite difficult to understand - here is the actual lockpick law (BC). It's unclear as it might be indicating that its possibly okay to pick locks that you own - however, since a lockpick can be also be used to unlock locks that you do not own they would be illegal...
Canadian Federal laws already make owning any "burglary instruments" illegal (10 years in jail) - and the burden of proof is on you to prove that you have a legitimate reason to have them and they were not used in any funny business. I will try to contact them and see what they say on the issue. http://www.bclaws.ca/civix/document/id/c......07030_01 Restricted keys and locksmith's instruments 25 (1) In this section, "authorized person" means a person who (a) holds a valid security business licence to carry on the security business of a locksmith, (b) holds a valid security worker licence and is employed as a locksmith by a person referred to in paragraph (a), (c) is designated by the regulations as an authorized person for the purposes of this section, or (d) is authorized in writing by the registrar to do a thing that this section otherwise prohibits. (2) The registrar (a) may impose conditions he or she considers appropriate in giving an authorization under subsection (1) (d), and (b) may cancel an authorization if he or she considers it appropriate. (3) A person must not cut, make, transfer, lend or give a restricted key to anyone unless the person is (a) an authorized person, (b) the owner of the locking device that is to be operated by the restricted key, or (c) an employee of, and acting with the authority of, the owner of the locking device that is to be operated by the restricted key. (4) A person, other than an authorized person or an owner of a locking device, must not possess any instrument designed or adapted to open or bypass a locking device without using the key or combination unique to that locking device, including any of the following: (a) a key; (b) a pick; (c) a rocker key; (d) a vibrating pick tool. |
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NotSoWise![]() New user victoria,bc 73 Posts ![]() |
I also did a bit of checking - there is a place in-town (military supply) that sells handcuffs - I will phone them and ask them. I also notice that the handcuffwarehouse.com say they ship to canada;
" Canadian shipping cost is determined by weight. All items on the website can be shipped to Canada except thumbcuffs. Important note: any shipment (including samples) of handcuffs, leg irons, handcuff keys, disposable restraints, or other restraints and accessories outside the USA and Canada requires a US Department of Commerce export license. " I am looking into it more, but it might be the case that they are legal to own, just not use on "bad people." That makes sense... I guess the real question is it worth the effort to try to learn to pick padlocks and handcuffs? Or is it always good to just get spirit locks, etc... Or just use the key? |
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The Forgotten One![]() New user 32 Posts ![]() |
I don't talk too much about laws because you can find your way around of them.
If real handcuffs are illegal, how about other kind of handcuffs? sex toys, kids handcuffs, trick handcuffs and so on... Can you use any of them? If lock picks and locksmith tools are illegal, how about improvised picks? paper clips and improvised shim's for example. If you cannot use straitjacket how about some other restraint devices? If you cannot use handcuffs, how about chain and locks? There are a lot of things anyway what you can be doing without handcuffs or lock picks. But because you asked about spirit locks and real locks, here is something for you: I'm hobbyist lock picker. In good day I can pick lock open less than 10 seconds. Sometimes with certain locks it can take 30 minutes or 1 hour. Some locks take multiple sessions before I manage to open them. All depends what the lock is and/or how well it operate. For example one old rusty lock can be opened less than 10 seconds, or get stuck and be stuck more than 1 hour. If you want to pick locks on stage and for real, you must first find locks what are very easy to pick open. And still I would propose that you would be manipulating that lock to be more easy to open! (every time less than 2 seconds while using paper clips!) Because while you are on stage, a lot of things can be happening. Specially if you are nervous, you could be stuck for long time and do you want that? But if you want to use real locks, you should be buying multiple cheapest lock what are in market and test what open more easily and what you don't want to use. What comes to spirit locks. I believe many don't use real locks because it is small uncertain things in your show what really isn't necessary at all. If you manage to pick real lock open, what it gives to your audience? If you don't manage, how that affect to your show? About handcuffs. Real normal handcuffs open very easily and that is no secret. They open in matter of seconds and you can even use improvised lock pick if you want. I don't find any reason for gimmick handcuffs. Even if you don't know how to pick real handcuffs open, you can always do certain things to bypass it. But that would be revealing secrets, so I leave it out. |
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The Forgotten One![]() New user 32 Posts ![]() |
My first post was reply for the topic starter first post. Now I could try to open other questions. Notice that I'm not from Canada and you might read laws differently than us. This is how in our country we would be reading those laws.
What comes to lock picks and keys for the locks, this is copy paste from your own post: "A person must not cut, make, transfer, lend or give a restricted key to anyone unless the person is the owner of the locking device that is to be operated by the restricted key." So according this you can cut, make or transfer key as long as you are owner of that specific lock. And next second part pasted together: "A person, other than an owner of a locking device, must not possess any instrument designed or adapted to open or bypass a locking device without using the key or combination unique to that locking device, including key, pick, rocker key, vibrating pick tool." According to this, if you are owner of the locking device, you can posses device to bypass or pick the lock open. So there should not be any kind of problems. Until your country judges read laws very weir ways... And I could be giving answer also for this question: "I guess the real question is it worth the effort to try to learn to pick padlocks and handcuffs? Or is it always good to just get spirit locks, etc... Or just use the key?" Handcuffs are SO easy to pick! Just look at the key! It is "L" shape stick what you turn in lock! Opening handcuffs are really that easy. You can also "shim" (bypass) handcuffs very easily. This is absolutely good skill to learn. It just don't take too much time to learn, so learn it. Myself, I like to pick padlocks, but it is more challenge thing for me than anything else. If you are making show for the audience, you could as well be using spirit locks because audience don't know what really is happening... Until you want to add "something extra" for yourself and really pick locks open. But remember, it can fail. I would be liking to talk more when to use real lock picks (and if it is vice or not), when spirit locks are nice, when using hidden key would be my choice, but that would be a lot of details in open section. |
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Ian McColl![]() Inner circle 1497 Posts ![]() |
Hi The Forgotten One, may I ask where in the world you hail from and what is your native tongue?
Ian
handcuff keys https://www.facebook.com/groups/274871910110997/
old business https://www.facebook.com/Stockade-locksmiths-276492435716704/ |
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The Forgotten One![]() New user 32 Posts ![]() |
Quote:
On Jul 14, 2014, Ian McColl wrote: Hi Ian. I'm from Finland and speak Finnish as my native tongue. So try to be patient with my English, I try my best. :p |
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antonia2828![]() New user 4 Posts ![]() |
Hi guys! I am located in the UK and plan a straitjacket escape for a show. Could I please have some advice of where to buy a posey straitjacket from?
The medical equipment websites I tried are asking for a prescription! Thank you very much in advance ![]() |
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antonia2828![]() New user 4 Posts ![]() |
Hi guys! I am located in the UK and plan a straitjacket escape for a show. Could I please have some advice of where to buy a posey straitjacket from?
The medical equipment websites I tried are asking for a prescription! Thank you very much in advance ![]() |
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Ian McColl![]() Inner circle 1497 Posts ![]() |
Quote:
On Jul 14, 2014, The Forgotten One wrote: Hi (don't they have first names in Finland?) I have been reading over some of your other posts and I find you English far better than most English speaking people. Welcome aboard. Wasn't the legendary Timo from Finland?
handcuff keys https://www.facebook.com/groups/274871910110997/
old business https://www.facebook.com/Stockade-locksmiths-276492435716704/ |
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NotSoWise![]() New user victoria,bc 73 Posts ![]() |
It turns out that the head office of a Security supply store is a very short walk from where I work. They also had a showroom, and a large selection of different cuffs. They told me it was perfectly legal to own handcuffs...
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Ian McColl![]() Inner circle 1497 Posts ![]() |
Go to http://www.network54.com/Forum/261154/ and just post (don't need to even register) a request for people in your area and learn about cuffs, there are quiet a few EA people up your way who should be able to help.
handcuff keys https://www.facebook.com/groups/274871910110997/
old business https://www.facebook.com/Stockade-locksmiths-276492435716704/ |
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NotSoWise![]() New user victoria,bc 73 Posts ![]() |
Thanks, ian, I put a quick post up there!
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Ian McColl![]() Inner circle 1497 Posts ![]() |
I am not too sure of the layout of your country and don't know who would be close to you, but Dean Gunnarson, Steve Santini and Bruce Thompson are a few up there.
Also may I draw your attention to the thread "a note of caution' (about ten down at handcuff org.)
handcuff keys https://www.facebook.com/groups/274871910110997/
old business https://www.facebook.com/Stockade-locksmiths-276492435716704/ |
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The Forgotten One![]() New user 32 Posts ![]() |
Quote:
On Jul 14, 2014, antonia2828 wrote: Hi There are other dealers also than medical companies. I don't going to recommend any dealers myself because I don't have experience to buying straitjackets. (I practice mainly rope escapes.) But I would start with dealers who sell magic and escapology related things. I believe you can find recommendations if you are using search function. Straitjackets seem to be popular topic among handcuffs in here. Another thing is, from what country you are trying to buy straitjacket? From foreign country or from your own country? If you are trying to buy it from your own country, then check first if you can legally own straitjacket without prescription or if you really need prescription for having one. You might want figure this out before your straitjacket is in custom service and they are asking your prescription. Quote:
On Jul 14, 2014, Ian McColl wrote: I'm saying a lot of sorry because of my English and there are couple reasons for that. Usually if people are attacking against me, they don't mind what my point of view was, they instead attack against my English and how bad it is. So even when I'm understanding English very well, it is hard to know how I write it because all the feedback is mainly negative. Also Finland is quite humble and polite country. This is pretty tricky thing to explain because we can also be very aggressive jerks. But I'm raised to be polite. It is polite to say sorry when I feel like I might be making a lot of mistakes. Or if I might offended others while I don't meant to. ![]() And of course our culture is different. We express ourselves differently and our phraseology is different. So bringing this up, is like a reminder to others. I try my best, And I hope others try their best as well to tolerate me. Yes we do have first names here (Now when I'm thinking this, I don't know if there is any country where they don't have first names at all?) Even second names and third names are possible, but I don't know how much people are giving second and third names anymore. And of course we also do have last names. (Only first and last name is what you have to have. Second and third name is optional.) It is custom that men call each others with last names, while women use their first names only. It is so common that even when you introduce yourself in formal situation, you can use only your last name and it is totally Ok. This isn't written anywhere and you can break this habit all what you want and nobody is offended. But this is quite common habit here. In some countries your first name is "what you are." It is specific name just for you. But here, it was "who's son you are." So last name is more important here than your first name. Even when I was young, adults could be asking "who's son you are" instead of "what your name is." And when they talked about you, they didn't use your name, you was always someones son (Timo's son, for example!) So after all, I don't wonder even for second, if somebody don't be sure if we have first names or not. Yes Timo is Finnish first name and I know at least one magician who used Timo as part of his stage name. He was famous here "back then" and now we do have 2 other magicians what have taken his place in tv. Iiro Seppänen is probably one of the most famous Finnish magician, but as always, He is in Usa now. :p (Over there all the money is after all... We are only small country and it is hard to make living with something more special here.) We also have at least one guy who is performing escape act, sword swallowing and things like that. And we have plenty of jugglers and circus actors. But only handful of those's who are famous or make living with it. |
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The Forgotten One![]() New user 32 Posts ![]() |
Cannot edit my message anymore, dam! Now this will be totally off topic, but here it goes.
I forgot, I'm cautious for using my real name anywhere, because a lot of bad things can happens when wrong people know your name and want to messing around. I had my past with imposters and I even got death threats because what others did under my name. Of course, now days I respect a lot of when I can be anonymous, the forgot one. I believe that everybody can understand this. But names are important, I agree that. You can call me John. It is nearest translation for English. (I put that in my signature for everybody to see.) |
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Ian McColl![]() Inner circle 1497 Posts ![]() |
Quote:
On Jul 15, 2014, The Forgotten One wrote: Not really, anon's are scared and frightened people. They are everywhere on the internet normally known as trolls. I cannot have faith and trust when I know the person I am talking to is scared and frightened. They panic easily. It's not a good quality for an escape artist and worse still an EA's safety officer. FFT.
handcuff keys https://www.facebook.com/groups/274871910110997/
old business https://www.facebook.com/Stockade-locksmiths-276492435716704/ |
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NotSoWise![]() New user victoria,bc 73 Posts ![]() |
I picked up a pair of S&W cuffs. I fiddled around with a paperclip and managed to get them open a few times. I think I need a thinner paperclip and a bit of research on how, exactly, the lock works...
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Ian McColl![]() Inner circle 1497 Posts ![]() |
Notsowise, you can become wise! email me at imccoll@sympac.com.au and I will email you some pictures of the inside of the cuff.
Ian
handcuff keys https://www.facebook.com/groups/274871910110997/
old business https://www.facebook.com/Stockade-locksmiths-276492435716704/ |
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