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Mindpro Eternal Order 10586 Posts |
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On Jul 25, 2014, MikeClay wrote: Sure I will be happy to explain, as perhaps it was misunderstood. I was simply stating the type of reviews that should or could be sought to create the best possible information for a potential purchaser and to create the best impact as part of the release. To address your numbered posts "1. I purchased the book, and am a customer. My review is unbiased.. If it is not could you please clarify as I don't know what your referring to." I consider you Mike to be #4 and #6 on my list of types of reviews/reviewers. What I meant was yours was so far the only ONE real review based on someone that has read the book. Since you are in the business and an authority on this type of content dealing in it on a daily basis, it is not a completely unbiased review from the intended target reader/audience, as Josh said who this book is for - those new to this, needing an initial understanding, etc. - not real experienced or pros in this arena, as I feel you would be. This is not meant in any way an offensive but rather as saying - okay, you got a review from and insider, a peer - great, lets hear from some of the others (on my list) as well. On one hand it is great that an insider had positive and encouraging things to say. But he was speaking your language and to content you are familiar with. Very nice. However with that said there is no way you can offer a truly unbiased or unprofessional perspective, other than your review of how you think others it is intended for will find his content. Ii completely understand your passion to want to help other entertainers. That is what I too do every day of my life here and other entertainer forums, in private consulting, personal coaching and training events, and formerly in my product releases that I hope to release again some day soon. I really get it, and commend you for doing so. I believe to many here you cleared up some confusion as to the "what" it is and the "who" questions I had. We only wish Josh could have done a better job of this himself from the beginning as I'm sure you did as well. You said you too had concerns about who this Josh guy was and his credibility as an unknown out-of-nowhere authority all of a sudden. You had the same thoughts and concerns I did, however because Josh views you as a peer and you understand the tech industry, he accepts these concerns from you rather than I or others. Do you believe he is an expert or authority and his content is based on experience, or is it gathered and shared information he is creating to position himself as a infopreneur without the experience and credibility? Is the book just the first bait to a funnel? I hope I explained my intended thoughts more clearly. If not I will be happy to continue to address these with you Mike. |
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JoshLondonMagic Special user 675 Posts |
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On Jul 25, 2014, Mindpro wrote: So what is the point of having a website if "many people" are not willing to spend the time to watch a video? Someone like yourself who has multiple websites for all your "businesses" don't you find it silly that you are even online if "many people" won't spend more than 6 seconds on your content? I'm sorry to inform you of FACTS, but content marketing is more relevant, necessary and in demand than ever before. This thread is a perfect example. You have spent so much of your time bickering back and forth, telling people their opinions don't matter, talking down to people, telling me that kid show performers are at the bottom rung, on the on ---- And through all your time here and well crafted/word-mixing responses YOU have effectively engaged with MY material and likely spent considerable time on my website. Now, that doesn't mean you'll buy my ebook or any other service I offer (and frankly I wouldn't work with you), BUT you have helped keep this thread going to 6 pages and helped me add more and more subscribers who are now in my funnel and some will buy from me. Also, you couldn't be more right about funnels - I have successfully set up my businesses as funnels. As a "business owner" you should know that sales is a process. 1, 2, 3, 4... It is all a process. Nothing more. When you understand that sales is a process of steps you can create a gamelan that supports the funnel and start making sales. This is no mystery and I make no claims that I don't look to put people in my funnels. This is not only covered on my blog in a post, but I briefly talk about it in the first chapter. Without a funnel set up you have no way of keeping in touch with prospects who raise their hand and say they might be interested, then convert them to leads then customers. Without a funnel, why do we even have websites, postcards, business cards, Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn, PPC, SEO, YouTube, free guides, free ebooks, free videos, free emails, free..... ? Josh
Josh
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3163 Posts |
Mindpro, you just don't get it do you. Decent, legitimate and helpful reviews come from....get this....Decent, Honest, Normal People.
You don't have to be an expert to read a book and know if you like it or not. Like I said before, we all are on different levels when it comes to the internet marketing knowledge stuff. It's impossible for one person to know that level of every potential reader. So it's simple, the book will be helpful to some and not so helpful to others. As Mike and myself both have said, if you want a book that explains internet marketing in a simple easy to understand way, then this is the book. On the other hand, if you looking for a high tech advanced course in marketing, this is not the right book. Really, what is so hard to understand about that, and what's wrong with a simple, basic, easy to understand, how to book. It's not being offered as anything other than that. What's the problem. Why do you feel that if it don't meet your approval then it won't be a fit for others here? One minute you say the entertainment business is different from other businesses, now you saying the book needs to be reviewed by someone outside the industry. Why, so you can say the entertainment business is different. Mindpro, what we really need to do is get some of those many students you claim to have in here to vouch for you. How do we know you qualified to ask questions, or to judge a book that you have not read. Ok, that's my last post on this. Good luck with the sales Josh. Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
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JoshLondonMagic Special user 675 Posts |
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On Jul 25, 2014, TomBoleware I don't blame you Tom! Read the section on websites and implement some changes to your About page Josh
Josh
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3163 Posts |
Thanks Josh, and I do have to say, in the book you did save the best for last.
I love the last chapter. That I will use for sure. Thanks Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
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JoshLondonMagic Special user 675 Posts |
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On Jul 25, 2014, TomBoleware wrote: PPC is my secret sauce
Josh
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charliecheckers Inner circle 1969 Posts |
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On Jul 25, 2014, JoshLondonMagic wrote: Josh - it would be unfair of me to suggest ways that would help me more, when I have not even taken the time and money to purchase your book yet. I will share my thought/reluctance a bit further and perhaps it will provide clarity: i am a full time performer in the summer months only. The remaining months of the year I do shows while attending school, so my show schedule opportunity is greatly reduced. Strategically, I have built my business with clients that tend not to rely heavily on internet searches. My marketing budget is quite low, mostly consisting of postcards, and targeted letter campaigns and/or flyers, as well as targeted emails. My growth has been focused on expanding further in these markets and currently I am trying to put the pieces together to land a client that could provide me with 40-60 shows a year, if I am successful. These shows pay much higher than I believe the birthday market will in my area. They also would allow me to operate with more certainty and better working conditions. I attempted some of the more grass roots type of marketing for birthday party shows when I was starting out, but I was most disappointed in the results I achieved. Now, 100% of my birthday shows are from attendees at shows or referals from them. I have not paid too much attention to internet marketing, as it has not been an interest or a perceived need of mine. Mindpro's description of 6 seconds seems about right in describing me. I tend to either skim or skip threads on SEO, PPC, SEM or any other three letter acrynoms. To me, those techniques are better suited for those who are offering more general services for price conscious clients. I have read quite a few of your threads/posts on TMC, and have been impressed when I google search your business and find you listed heavily. Even so, I did not listen to your podcast because I had only vague interest in further information on internet marketing, and your name was only recognizable to me through your posts (in other words, you were not a Ken Scott, The Great Zucchini, at least not to me). This thread title had a tittle that drew my attention and there were opinions from those I have come to respect, so I spent a bit more time thinking about your information. After three days or so of following the thread I decided to listen to the podcast ( I actually got through 40 minutes or so) and signed up for the free chapter. In doing so, I left with mixed feelings as it applies to my particular circumstances. On one hand, there are portions of my business that would probably improve with better internet marketing, for example scouts and after school shows may benefit. Additionally, you discuss the need for a powerful website. I would have interest in clearly described basic information on this topic alone. What holds me back from embracing your methods is the following: I would need to invest much more in having a high end website that captures the elements needed for optimal internet marketing, I perceive there would be a significant amount of money invested in Adwords, and I would need to invest a significant amount of time in creating and participating in blogs. There may be more I would discover as I read your entire offering. I am concerned that my business would transition from my current strategy of enlarging my presence with high paying clients to blogging, internet monitoring and selling time that attracts lower paying and less desireable gigs. |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10586 Posts |
Tom, I just said exactly the same thing as you just said, getting real reviews from real people. And for your I have just as much right to ask questions about this or any product as anyone else. I genuinely had an interest in him, this product and this content for reasons already explained - twice.
Yes, the entertainment business is different than other business, I've proven that many times here. If you haven't gotten it you just have to buy my book when it's available, that's taking me three years not to write but to revise. But his product is, as he said not for the industry and he has clients and businesses that this content is targeted to outside out industry. Reviews from them would have been useful. Why is that so hard for you to understand? And again I have not judged a book I haven't read - never have I said anything of the sort. My interests were about the much bigger picture. My students are interested in advancing their entertainment careers and businesses and separating themselves from the pack and the type of things that go on here. Trust me, my students are among us. I do hope that was your last post, but the bookmakers here in Vegas are betting it's not. ************************************ Josh, "So what is the point of having a website if "many people" are not willing to spend the time to watch a video? Someone like yourself who has multiple websites for all your "businesses" don't you find it silly that you are even online if "many people" won't spend more than 6 seconds on your content?" That's not at all what I said. You have to convince or hook them in 6 seconds or less wity your message or content. This is business and marketing 101. Without this nothing else matters. There are many ways this can be done, but not typically by a video or blog. Come on, your the expert and you should know this. You should also know that there are different types of websites for different purposes, uses and applications. As I shared before some of my sites are by invitation only. They have already been hooked, they've already seen or contact our offices or spoke to one of our represenatives and are going to the sites for other or additional reasons. This is the thing I often see around here, everyone thinks one size fits all when it comes to web sites demo videos, promotional materials, services, etc. It is not. There are many variables. That's why some of the silliest posts here are "let me know your thoughts about my new website." Then members here start chiming in with all kinds of opinions and advices, yet I have NEVER, EVER even once seen someone ask the OP "what is your intended use or desired CTA from this site. Who is it targeted to and what is it you are seeking for it to perform or execute? Never. As I've stated before if people have to search, jump through hoops and do a song and dance to get some basic information - regardless of all the high-tech whiz-bang methods that are employeed, a click to close or back arrow to something or someone else ends it all. Hook them first, provide more content that want or need - over-deliver in the most direct and clear way possible. THEN direct them as you or your funnel desires. Let's not overthink things. I think it's great that you at least admit this is a funnel leading to larger sales and purchases. This is more than I can say for some other infoprenuers that think they are slick or that everyone else is naive and doesn't know this? Most know free content is just a ploy or bait to get a capture and lead to other expected and hard sells. The truth is it about making sales, not truly helping people. So they shouldn't present it as such. People respect honestly and the truth more than these slick, overused and underdelivering info-product methods. I agree with you about content marketing. However let's deal in truths here I'm not talking down to anyone, just stating my perspectives, concerns and opinions. As far as kids magicians tell me a lower rung on the chain of command? I explained myself perfectly and it was not meant to offend but rather state the truth of how it is understood and perceived by agencies, talent buyers, planners and within the industry. Getting defensive is the kids performer in you. After all you progressed on to comedy clubs, theaters and corporate didn't you? Not sure because you wouldn't answer our background questions. I didn't make this chain up, it's just what it is, like it or not. Once it is accepted it becomes much easier to progress within it. There are many very reputable, successful and professional kids performers. There is nothing wrong with that. But there are many, many, many more that are exactly the stereotypical opposite of which I speak. Truth of the matter is I was right about the funnels, as I am also right about most of the other stuff that is factual. I wouldn't waste my or others times just dealing in incorrectness or misperceptions. Quote:
On Jul 25, 2014, JoshLondonMagic wrote: This is exactly my point. This is what YOU want. That does not mean (and it is typically not) what YOUR POTENTIAL AUDIENCE wants. To get people into your funnel, you have to provide the info THEY Want/need, and deliver it in the way THEY want, not necessarily you. |
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MikeClay Special user Atlanta GA 761 Posts |
It amazes me that people still think that internet marketing means lower paying clients...
As an entertainer the Internet put me on Good Eats season 12 episode 4 (not a low paying client) I only worked - the country club areas - Was hired by alumni associations - Did full scale themed parties (the madd hatter tea party I used to book for $3500... booked 3 of them in 1 year) Internet Marketing gets you business based off the targeting. Your targeting will set the standards for the price. Example : the average facebook user earns 35k per year (great place to book a TON of birthday parties) while the average user on LikedIn is 120k per year so while you need a fanpage to get social signal, if you want higher end corporate gigs LinkedIn is what you target. You have to build an "Ideal Client Demographic", what's the average education lvl of your client? What age? Who books you more male or female? White collar or blue? What magazines would you find in there house? What is the average price range of there house? What groups do they follow on facebook? Do they read the newspaper or watch TV? Smartphone? Iphone or Droid? All of these questions help you TARGET your marketing. Site down and give your client a name George Lawyer. Ivy League School Well educated Drives a high end car (BMW, Mercedes, Porsche) Reads golf magazine has country club membership Smokes $75 cigars To market to george do you send him a newsletter on upcomming kids activities in the neighborhood, or do you send him a $50 Outback gift card and a promo pack with an intro letter saying, George, we met on LinkedIn and I know your busy so I figured I would buy you a steak dinner and pay for your time. Take a minute and go though my promo pack. I will call you in a few days to see when we can get me on your schedule to help you plan how I am going to help you drive 10x the traffic to your trade show booth NEXT year at (name the last show he talked about on LinkedIn) BTW this is very similar to how I booked corporate gigs noone else could get in the door on. It is also how I sell very large Marketing Strategies ... The last one was a $100 outback card and my note said, "I know you look into these things after work, because you post around 2am on LinkedIn, and I wanted to thank your wife with you taking her to a steak dinner for me stealing her time. As you will see in my brief audit on your PPC account, your losing ........" Had that meeting last week, closed an account worth a small mint... Because I send out Gift cards like that (from leads and prospects from the internet). My cost for conversion is close to 4% of my contracts. Soooo whatever you do to PAY for there time. KEEP it below 10% of the contract you could get, and you will have to do it to figure out the numbers. HECK it might be a $5 starbucks card. For really high end clients Internet Marketing is designed to keep your lead source FULL, and to prequalify the leads. The beauty of it is once you have a proper funnel setup for leads you have people to talk to that WANT to hear from you.
its ok.. balloon dogs don't bite
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charliecheckers Inner circle 1969 Posts |
Mike - I admit to being totally naive about internet marketing. My perceptions come from the examples shared here on TMC. Most who discuss internet marketing success here, seem to be speaking about birthday party shows. Even if I were to be able to focus on those making higher income levels, it does not necessarily mean they would not be price shoppers, or that they would be willing to pay for a higher priced show..
I am very interested in discussions that include maximizing internet marketing for non- birthday party shows. |
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Marmen Regular user 157 Posts |
I am a dinosaur and do not understand all this internet marketing guff and what is more have no intention of understanding it. However, for those of you who are fans of this dreadful modern age I see no reason why you shouldn't at least look at Josh's sample chapter. If as a result you don't like what he says then forget it. If you do like what he says then go for it. It doesn't seem rocket science to figure that out. It may be rocket science to figure out all this horrible internet marketing talk but if you do understand it then just look at Josh's sample chapter and then buy or don't buy the bloody thing.
I am always highly sceptical when I see all sorts of people chattering about "marketing" and "the biggest part of the word "showbusiness" is BUSINESS". Half the time with many of you it is all show and no business. I strongly suspect people who chatter about marketing all the time are either starving magicians who don't get any work or if they do because of their marketing skills they are absolute crap. In all these threads I never see the most powerful marketing system of all mentioned. And the most obvious one. And the most cost effective one. WORD OF MOUTH AND REPEAT BOOKINGS. I maintain and am certain of it that if you have been doing magic professionally for more than 5 years that at least 75% of your work (if not more) should come from word of mouth. If this is not the case there is something wrong somewhere. Probably your act. |
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MikeClay Special user Atlanta GA 761 Posts |
@Charlie ...
My statement goes far beyond you, as I hear this multiple times a week. Dealing with price shoppers is more about the sales copy than anything else. You will still get them from time to time but they are easy to deal with. I did birthday parties to fill up the calender, and charged more than many in the area. When a price shopper called I started off by saying "I'm more expensive than the rest if your looking for cheap entertainment let me give you a few people to call" Price should be an afterthought in the negotiation and not a main event.
its ok.. balloon dogs don't bite
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10586 Posts |
What I think needs more attention and a clearer, better understanding is the use of Internet Marketing for specific target audiences. Most IM seems to be geared toward the general public, masses or to a specified target within the masses - parents of kids for planning a birthday party, etc.
I think members in the community are beyond that. To me it's the equivilent of just having a website. When they first came out and were getting popular, they were the thing to have. Everyone wanted a website. They would soon be exposed to the world! Yeah, that had to be great for business. They expected it to help their business, bookings and image. They soon they realized that nothing happened. They soon learned that having a website is not enough, but it's they type, quality and such of a website - there is a difference. Then all of this other stuff comes along designed to get the most our of your website. Then all of these other things connected to your website - SEO, Google, Adwords, pay per click, Facebook, and so on. Now they are learning general marketing at best brings in general results, at worst, no results or perhaps price shoppers. Now it's determined they want more specified results. However this is the point where it becomes problematic. How does one target, qualify and generate interest, leads and impact to a specific target audience or market? Little is being offered to please or address this issue. To me this is what charliecheckers and most others are truly seeking. As I suspect this info seems to be being held hostage for pay or these gurus are finding it to be a progressive work in progress. Either way, we are learning it is a multi-facted, time and money consuming process that many are not willing to do. Heck, for years many haven't been willing to put in the effort to make and send a letter or post card, why on earth do they want to have to almost become a techie and a copywriter to get, understand and implement this stuff? Or be expected to pay someone else to do it for them and a premium price possible only to find little or no results? I too think if more specified and targeted direct results could be done and made easy, more would be more embracing and inviting to all of this. Also if it was more affordable to pricing they could accept, say $14.95 to maybe $24.95 per month for someone to do this for them. As they see results this could of course increase. If you are looking for what people really want, this is it. Few are willing to put their money where there mouth is to offer such, bit if there knowledge and services can produce as they claim, this should be a no-brainer. Plus as it has been for generations, tech guys speak too techie which is almost an instant turnoff for most people. In all honesty, while I believe Mike Clay likely knows his stuff, I have always found it hard to read his posts because he gets too techy for me in almost all of them, almost instantly. Oddly enough, this is why I was originally interested in Josh and his approach as it spoke more to me, but he blew that. Posted: Jul 26, 2014 10:10 am Btw, I also agree with charliecheckers that too much kids birthday parties references and influence occurs here. There is a section specifically for kids performers and related business. This forum is more geared to the business of performing, working professional markets and advancement of these. I think this is where much of the problem happens here. Some of us want to talk real business, others want to talk about their specific kids party interests. Nothing more frustrating than when a good business discussion is happening, with great input for many others wit the same interest only to have the business at hand shifted to something or someone always wanting to relate it to kids parties. Kids party performers that can and want to see beyond only kids parties can and have often learned much more here to advance their business by learning of interests beyond and outside of kids parties. |
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Keith Raygor Special user Naples, FL 968 Posts |
That might be the perfect place to end this thread. It's clear as heck.
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3163 Posts |
LOL...
Yes, but wait until I say this.... Mindpro, how many times do we have to tell you, this section, Tricky Business, is for discussing magic related business of any kind. This section is not for professionals only. This section welcomes kidshow magicians that want to talk about business matters. If you post anywhere else on the board about business they tell you to come here. This is where you talk business. What's so hard to understand about that? Sure it's hard sometimes when the markets get mixed. But it's simple to just skip over the posts you don't like. You don't need complete control of the whole thread. Maybe you need to start your own topic and name it, For Superstars Only. Then you can just post all you want there. If you want me to I will come there and help you beat the kidshow performers off. Sort of like we do the haters here. Ok, that was my last word. I promise. Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
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MikeClay Special user Atlanta GA 761 Posts |
LOL.... Sorry Mindpro... at the office I have 2 staff members that take what I do and translate.
It's a problem of having 18 years of experience doing this that it's common knowledge for me. When I do classes I do the first part of "Vocab Building" so that we get everyone on the same page. And my staff goes through my powerpoint to make sure I have broken it down enough. I have given Josh book to my inhouse editor to see if she agrees with me (she isn't an SEO consultant but a content writer) In my mind Digital Marketing (encompasses all Internet marketing from social media to seo and even PPC) MUST start with good groundwork per project. - Figure out the goals of the project (more phone calls, building a email list, build a lead funnel that is ALWAYS on, or one of MANY other goals) - Interview client to understand the demographic of the perfect customer for them (If they want to only talk with marketing managers about trade shows, that's good to know) - Research where there IDEAL Customer is online (are they hanging out on Facebook, watching cat videos at 2am, or contacting prospects on linkedin) - Figure out ROI on results (how much potential traffic CAN you get, vrs the % of how many leads you convert and the profit from them) to rank costs money and time, the idea is to find what will get qualified leads while still making profit. - build out a proposal for a 12 month implementation strategy The problem with a "more affordable" price is the time involved. To get extreme targeted results takes time and testing at $24 a month the best you could hope for is a membership site that teaches you how to do it. But the software to track results and do the testing is close to $50 a month per client for us. (our primary research tool costs 10k a year) I say this to hopefully give perspective on "affordable" .. It comes down to your individual business practices, and knowing what you should budget for marketing
its ok.. balloon dogs don't bite
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Tom why is everyone only allowed to express opinions when you agree with them?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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JoshLondonMagic Special user 675 Posts |
Charliecherckers, thanks for your responses. That really helps me as I continue on and create content.
Regarding how targeting is more effective than postcards, flyers, etc. I'd like to say that just a strategy is not the most important thing. It's the strategy AND the image that will weed out a lot of the price shoppers. I charge twice as much as my competition and the reason is because my website is much better than theirs and the branding I have implemented tells those who are looking for a premium entertainer that I am their guy. This isn't to say that I don't get people who inquire and can't afford me, I most certainly do, after all my website is available for the whole world to see and anyone can contact me. But, this are few and far between. For targeting, the internet is the most effective tool we have. Mike shared a post in another thread about using linkedin to target prospects and I doubt anyone will ever try it, which is a shame because it's a way that real business is happening today. My ebook was written to demystify the internet marketing world for the new comer - to a point. Obviously since it's only 105 pages it can't teach everything and that was pointed out in Mike's review (keyword research could take a whole other ebook). But the ebook is written to make sense to people who know that the internet is necessary to build their business and want a basic foundation to build on. Josh
Josh
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10586 Posts |
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On Jul 26, 2014, MikeClay wrote: Thanks Mike for the detailed explanation. I already understood this, but it also kind of proves my point. It is a rather costly venture just to try it out. This limits interest. And companies like yours and probably Josh's are seeking a 12 month commitment for such "trying it out" or implementation. I get it. I get what's involved, the efforts, the costs, the resources, the time needed for testing and results, and the process. My simple point is that it's too much for most entertainers - especially part-timers, beginners, kids entertainers or others that are in the lower price points. To many of them this would be a costly expense. I completely understand what you are saying and the value, and yes there will probably be the upper 10-15% of this level of performers that may also get it and be willing to try it out or make the commitment. Most won't. This is why I explained what I did at the price points I did, and even then you know as well as I do there are guys that wouldn't commit to $14.95, $19.95 or $24.95 per month for this either. Even if you did all the work! Perhaps you are not targeting them, I understand this too. My point was if there was something at this more attractive price point that could produce even basic but identifiable and measurable results, it could prove to be quite valuable to motivate and convince others to make the level of commitment that you desire and believe to be needed. Too much today is pay now, and MAYBE see the results later. If I was marketing such services, I would seriously try to change this somehow someway. This also leads to another point. All info-marketers today are using the same techniques and systems, and often getting watered down and the same dwindling results. I've talked to Bruchard, Kern and others who agree about this. Everyone has been told - this is how it's done and this is how it works. I have made a career of deliberately creating my own systems, often against the trend of popularity (as they all fade from being hot or in favor eventually anyway) to separate myself from the pack and have much greater control over my results, desired outcomes and pricing. I agree with your sentiments about knowing our business and marketing budget, but still maintain that the vast majority of entertainers, even most pros, do not have a marketing plan or budget. They view this as an expense not as an investment, yet are always the first ones to complain about few bookings, lower prices, undercutting, bottomfeeders, and things (marketing) "not working". |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10586 Posts |
Btw, Welcome Back Tom! We all knew Tom would be back and of course talking abut things no one has even said. No one ever said this section was for professionals only, can't imagine where you did this stuff up? More saying things that don't exist or making assumptions. This forum is for discussion of professional markets and related business. There are other forums for such specialized things as kids performers and the kids market. Charliecheckers was only expressing what I know many here feel, that they come here to hear, learn and grow from those in these professional markets with professional experience and that may be at an advance level that they are not yet at but aspire to get to themselves in the future.
He's correct when some of the kids talk impairs this or brings the conversataion down to such a level. Other kids performers here can look beyond just kids performing and want to learn about the business and more business techniques. There only seems to be a small handful that have the mentality of not wanting to learn from others more advanced than themselves. Trust me, there is much advance and "superstar" level stuff that we hold back from here. I can't tell you how many here PM me asking to talk about theaters, self-produced and four-walling, touring, advance fundraising, press and media, diversifying, sponsorships, agencies, multiple streams of income, BOR, and high-end advanced techniques. Many here can't keep up with the basics from professionals here. Then others want to ruin it for those that truly do. That is what this forum is for and why we choose to participate. It's also why many great professionals have chosen to leave because of the limited perspectives of some participants here. It's also why when a new guru wannabe comes along they get called out or asked to back their claims and material. It's really quite easy. So I guess my question then becomes if you are not interested in the business of these professional markets and entertainment business, why are you here? Why are you so opinionated against those here to share and those here to learn? What really is the point? I often ask myself what are certain members here to contribute? You're either here to learn or to share? Then there's those that seem to do neither but somehow thrust themselves into the smoothly going threads to create friction and despair. I seriously question what motives some have for participating here if they are not here to share or learn? Keith, you were correct, that would have been a great place for this to end and I wished it would have. |
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