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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Polly wants a cracker... » » Where to start (5 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

TravisNye
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I know this has been discussed before but posting it again to see if there are any updated material. Where is a good place to start with dove magic. Place to get doves pre trained or not pre trained which is better. Learning pulls, routines, handling etc.
Dave Scribner
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Yes, this has been discussed several times. The best place to start with dove magic is to evaluate your capability. By that I mean, do you have the space to keep doves, can you devote hours per day for care and feeding, can you afford vet bills. Is the cooing they do going to disturb your neighbors.

Doves should never be purchased from a pet shop. Pet shop animals present too many problems. Whether to get pre-trained or un-trained doves is a choice only you can make. Personally, I always preferred un-trained doves because that's part of the fun. Raising them from egg to adulthood has no equal. Even pre-trained doves require attention and training by you.

If you seriously interested in getting into dove magic, I'd suggest you get as many of the resources listed at the top of this forum as you can to get a thorough understanding of what you're getting into. Tony Clark, Andy Amyx, General Grant and Greg Frewin are excellent authors and offer a wide range of information on the subject.
Where the magic begins
Dick Oslund
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I used doves in my school program for twenty-five years. The two doves filled 8 minutes with entertainment. Everything that Dave Scribner said above, is 100% correct!!!
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
Michael Baker
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As with any animal magic, always do your homework before actually getting the animals. It is THEM that pay for any mistakes YOU make. Always think of them as co-performers and not as props.
~michael baker
The Magic Company
TravisNye
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Ok with that said... Where is a good book or video to start with on learning pulls and equipment needed for dove magic. I am not going to just jump into but I would like to research it to see the cost of some of the props and materials needed
Dick Oslund
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Michael made a very good point...The doves are CO-PERFORMERS!

At Abbott's GTG about 25 years ago, a young magician dropped a bird on the floor. The bird was "confined". The "magician" KICKED THE DOVE INTO THE WINGS. HE LOST THE AUDIENCE. --and never got them back!

What "type" of dove "act" are you considering? --Channing Pollack? Amos Lefkovitch? Tony Clark? General Grant? or ??? If so, I recuse myself.

My routine was ultra simple. I work without a coat. A "Tony Kardyro" bag, and a Neil Foster harness sufficed. With lots of schtick, and gags, the two birds provided 8 minutes of ooohs, ahhhs, and laughs.
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
TravisNye
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I do not have any one particular routine in mind. I have a video I think by Dan Spary discussing care and training if the birds but as far as loads and pulls I am completely oblivious. I have performed parlor and close up magic for about 8 years and as I get older I find myself wanting to get more into a stage performance and keep a very lance Burton Esc feel to the show. I am just researching at this point.
Dick Oslund
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'POPULARITY OF DOVE ACTS' is just two 'posts' below this one. Read it!!! It must might change your thinking.
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
Michael Baker
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I might suggest starting with fail-safe props at first until you get used to working with the birds. Make sure they are comfortable, well-ventilated and that confinement time is minimal. I know of a guy who has been known to leave a dove in a dove to balloon tray for a half hour or more. Yes, it eventually resulted in a dead bird. Bad. Bad. Bad.

Body loads are touchy as your body heat can quickly add to the bird's discomfort. Do not use invisible harnesses until you are far more experienced. Too many things can go wrong, sometimes even with experience.

There are a ton of books out there on dove magic. I have rarely seen one that is "bad".
~michael baker
The Magic Company
Dave Scribner
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Lake Hopatcong, NJ
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Travis, I think you are missing the point we are all trying to make with you. Don't take this the wrong way as I'm only trying to help you, but you are jumping the gun big time by looking for routines and such with "pulls" and loads. I don't know where you got the idea about pulls with dove magic, but in almost 50 years of performing dove magic, I have never seen anyone use a pull with a dove.

In any event, as I mentioned in my orginal response above, before thinking about effects, routines and things like that, you should obtain as many of the resources listed in the sticky topic at the top of this forum.

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......forum=13

You need to know as much as you can about care, feeding, housing and all the requirements for useing doves before considering any of the things you've mentioned. You need to understand about body loads and load chambers because used incorrectly, you can serioud injure your bird up to and including death. It's more than just putting a dove in a pocket and pulling him out and I use the word "pulling" very loosely and this should never be done.
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TravisNye
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Again.... Not looking for routines... And sorry for using the wrong terms ( loads and pulls) I understand about the care if the birds. Just like training any animal it requires a lot of time and patients. But I do not want to worry about the training or even buying a bird until I learn the mechanics behind the productions etc to see if it something I want to work with. Again I apologize using the terms loads and pulls I was simply meaning the handling during the performance to see if it is something I would be willing to do.

Trust me I understand the training and care of the birds. If I have to I will practice the productions and vanishes with a fake bird I just want to know what the methods are of doing these moves because I do not want to handle the birds in a way I feel it would make them uncomfortable or possibly harm them.

So as you said Dave "don't take this the wrong way" but I think you misunderstood me when I said I have no specific routines in mind.. I ment I don't have any routines in mind lol
Dave Scribner
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OK, here's my suggestion another way. Look at the topic I linked to above. That is a list of resources that will give you want you want to know. The videos by Tony Clark, General Grant and Andy Amyx not only go in to detail about care and feeding but explain many effects both with and without props. They are a good investment even if you decided not to go into Dove magic. Many of the concepts and ideas can be used for effects without doves.
Where the magic begins
Dave Scribner
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So Travis, have you started your library yet
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canadianmagicfella
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The dove magic dvd by Shimada was recommended to me by my mentor. It gives a straightforward approach, and should help you decide whether you truly would like to give dove magic a shot.
Dave Scribner
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The Shimada DVD is basically a performance video and should not be used to determine whether or not to get into dove magic.
Where the magic begins
Gordon
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However much work you think taking care of the doves will be, triple your estimate and you might be getting close. The number one question when considering if you want to use birds in your ACT is to decide if you want to have birds in your LIFE. Have you ever owned a parakeet? Do you know how to safely pick up a bird? Do you know what they eat? Do you know how to avoid sickness and filth? (In yourself and the birds!) Where will you keep them? Who will watch after them when you go on vacation? How much money will each bird cost you per year?

These types of questions are the real work, not the methods of tricks.
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