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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Latest and Greatest? » » Double Cross by Mark Southworth (From Magic Smith) (120 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Exitmat
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Quote:
On Mar 10, 2015, mkarav wrote:
How reliable is the vanishing of the ink in the performer's hand? Is it failsafe or does it vary with faint traces left?

For the record Henry Hay in "The Amateur Magician's Handbook" describes the Pothead trick that can be done with any porous surface like a sugar cube. The interesting point of this version is the DELAY: the spec stares at their palm while the cube (with symbol drawn by say a pencil) dissolves in a glass of water or crushed on floor by shoe: THEN you ask him to place his hands over the glass and that is when you transfer the symbol to his hands.

This effect appears stronger than loading the spec right away and then revealing the symbol on his palm. After the symbol disappears in the performer's hand DELAY while spec looks is convinced his palms are clean then do the dirty work.

It's reliable. Works every time.

And I wouldn't sacrifice the time misdirection you get from marking them early for the extra convincer. One of the beautiful things about this effect is after it's over the volunteer always says "But you never touched me!" or someone will ask if you touched them, and they always say no. Part of the deception is that you're so far ahead.
ChrisDavid
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Im selling mine. However I cannot log in under user name VernonOnCoins due to some technical difficulty so I cannot post in sales section under this current user name.

My Double Cross is basically brand new. I just took it out and looked it over (used a bit of the tack on the end of pen) otherwise the unit is in like-new condition


$55 shipped (will save you about 10 bucks with their shipping etc)


Just PM me. Thanks
Chris
carlwag
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Can anyone pm me I'm having issues with the vanish

Carl
bobgill
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I think Michael Jay made a few very valid points:
- there are other ways to achieve a similar-seeming effect
- this is a good solution: well thought-out, well made, and it works
- there is a moral dilemma involved, since if you have read the thread you know Gary Jones' allegation that the concept was his and so he feels he was ripped off
- no-one knows the role played by the central figure, Mark Southworth, but good luck trying to get a reply out of Mark. [In fairness, I understand he has had a tough family situation to deal with, so he's not on top of his communications right now.]

I just received the prop, not having read this thread till now. Gary is someone I hold in high regard (and he's a fellow Plymothian) so I regret the position he finds himself in. Had I known the history: would I have bought it? Probably not. Now I do know, will I get rid of it on principle? Probably not.

For what it's worth, I think it's a fine prop, and a strong routine. I bought it purely on the strength of the effect I saw on the trailer, and it does exactly what was promised. I will use this, both socially and professionally.

As some of the postings suggest, it is a touch knacky to handle, but the teaching video does a first class job of explaining it in great detail.

Rasmus: nice idea with the biz card/lighter, although I think it does dilute the impact and organic nature of something appearing on a spectator's hand - it's almost a touch intimate.

I quite like the idea of having a dozen or more people at the function having the magic mark on them - provides a talking point in which my performance features.

A pal of mine in the UK, Pete Wentworth, used to constantly do the venerable ash trick back when ashtrays were commonplace. He had a lovely gesture at the end - handed the spectator a single, wrapped wet-wipe tissue (like those given out at KFC) to clean themselves up. It was always a much-appreciated gesture that reflected well on him as a performer and gentleman: particularly as he worked with VIPs, including British Royalty.

My only concern is how long this prop (or to be precise, the inks in the prop) will last - although ink replacements are available from Magicsmith, and his video gives full details how to replace them yourself. So as long as he supports it with these replacements, or one can track down a source of the ink used in the vanish, all's well. Only time will tell how long busy pros find it lasts before the ink runs dry. It's not as if one can buy a supply for the future right now, as they'd all dry out together!
gjmagic
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Quote:
On Mar 20, 2015, bobgill wrote:
I think Michael Jay made a few very valid points:
- there are other ways to achieve a similar-seeming effect
- this is a good solution: well thought-out, well made, and it works
- there is a moral dilemma involved, since if you have read the thread you know Gary Jones' allegation that the concept was his and so he feels he was ripped off
- no-one knows the role played by the central figure, Mark Southworth, but good luck trying to get a reply out of Mark. [In fairness, I understand he has had a tough family situation to deal with, so he's not on top of his communications right now.]

I just received the prop, not having read this thread till now. Gary is someone I hold in high regard (and he's a fellow Plymothian) so I regret the position he finds himself in. Had I known the history: would I have bought it? Probably not. Now I do know, will I get rid of it on principle? Probably not.

For what it's worth, I think it's a fine prop, and a strong routine. I bought it purely on the strength of the effect I saw on the trailer, and it does exactly what was promised. I will use this, both socially and professionally.

As some of the postings suggest, it is a touch knacky to handle, but the teaching video does a first class job of explaining it in great detail.

Rasmus: nice idea with the biz card/lighter, although I think it does dilute the impact and organic nature of something appearing on a spectator's hand - it's almost a touch intimate.

I quite like the idea of having a dozen or more people at the function having the magic mark on them - provides a talking point in which my performance features.

A pal of mine in the UK, Pete Wentworth, used to constantly do the venerable ash trick back when ashtrays were commonplace. He had a lovely gesture at the end - handed the spectator a single, wrapped wet-wipe tissue (like those given out at KFC) to clean themselves up. It was always a much-appreciated gesture that reflected well on him as a performer and gentleman: particularly as he worked with VIPs, including British Royalty.

My only concern is how long this prop (or to be precise, the inks in the prop) will last - although ink replacements are available from Magicsmith, and his video gives full details how to replace them yourself. So as long as he supports it with these replacements, or one can track down a source of the ink used in the vanish, all's well. Only time will tell how long busy pros find it lasts before the ink runs dry. It's not as if one can buy a supply for the future right now, as they'd all dry out together!


Hi Bob,

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, yes I had this idea and shared the idea with Mark, it was then put on the back-burner (I have many ideas I've not done anything with) so I was a little peeved shall we say when this was released. That's in the past and life moves on! I haven't seen the final product so I can't really answer your question, I would love to see the finished product but I certainly ain't going to purchase one Smile

As for my outburst on Facebook, it was before I had my coffee, and it was removed not long after (after I'd had my coffee!!), unfortunately some people take screenshots, or immediately repost these things on forums because as humans we love a bit of gossip/scandal. I'm totally to blame for that for pressing the send button.......but I don't want that to distract from this product in any way. Far from it, I hope this product does extremely well as I still believe that the idea is sound and gives fellow magicians another version of this classic.

Mike does indeed make some sound points, and do we need yet another version of a sound effect? I personally think we do, we're all different, and choices are good in my book, but each to their own.

What makes this version so good is, it's a self-contained unit, if you have the pen on you then you can mark items and vanish ink marks, no messy stamps to carry, and it still can work alongside traditional methods of this effect!

Like I mentioned, I've not seen the finished product but from what I know it has certainly moved along much further from my original idea with the gimmick supplied. Of course, I'm not the only person in the world to have thought of this idea, it's a natural progression, doing away with the old style stamping gimmicks and creating a self-contained unit. My original idea was making it into the pen, and then having different (extra) stamps for playing cards, letters, symbols etc, hopefully this will soon be added to this gimmick.

So all good this end, and please don't be put off by my original outburst a while back, I truly do endorse this product as I obviously think it is an awesome idea! Would still love to see the finished product ;-)

Kind regards,

Gary.
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Jared
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Gary Jones is pure class...I buy almost everything from him sight unseen. I was joking with a close magic friend this morning while discussing a recent video of his by saying don't you wish that Gary Jones was your uncle? He's so likeable and down-to-earth on his videos.
roblane
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Just got this and I think it's a brilliantly self-contained prop. I'm having trouble getting the 'you know what' to stay on my finger. Any advice chaps ( if that indeed makes any sense)?
Definition of a Freudian slip; Saying one thing and meaning a "mother"!
Casey Sparrow
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Use more of the St**** Stuff??

CS
Michael Jay
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I've been doing 'ashes on the hand' for nearly 40 years now without any of the problems - any_of_the_problems - that are being posted on this thread. I must say, though, that this thread is a truly entertaining read...My favorite post so far is:

"I'm selling mine..." (ChrisDavid) Smile

But, as is pointed out in several earlier posts, I'm just an idiot. My suggestion is that you don't listen to anything that I have to say and you just keep buying up the latest and the greatest with abandon.

Carry on!

Mike.
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MR Effecto
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I sould have this by Thursday. Cant wait.
Kaliix
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What letter did you draw with those ashes?

Those ashes leaves permanent marks, at least ones that stay on for a day or two?


Quote:
On Apr 8, 2015, Michael Jay wrote:
I've been doing 'ashes on the hand' for nearly 40 years now without any of the problems - any_of_the_problems - that are being posted on this thread. I must say, though, that this thread is a truly entertaining read...My favorite post so far is:

"I'm selling mine..." (ChrisDavid) Smile

But, as is pointed out in several earlier posts, I'm just an idiot. My suggestion is that you don't listen to anything that I have to say and you just keep buying up the latest and the greatest with abandon.

Carry on!

Mike.
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel J. Boorstin
Michael Jay
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No, Kaliix, the ashes aren't permanent. Of course, that's a downside to it because, as we all know, what everyone wants is someone putting permanent marker on their hands. They just love that (especially if they are a trained professional like a doctor or nurse...And their patients just love how unprofessional they look with permanent maker on their hands - it's just another bonus of helping a magician).

Also, you are correct...When they see the ashes on their hand with no logical answer as to how they got there, they just aren't as impressed as when they see a letter there. In fact, once when I did 'ashes on the hand' the guy looked at me and said, "That's not magic. The other magician that I saw made a letter appear on my hand. I know it's real magic when it's a letter and not just some old smudge. Gee, if only you had that awesome marker that makes letters appear on my hand, then you'd be a real magician."

Smile

Mike.
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oweosc12
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Kaliix
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Well Michael, a good magician would know his audience, use some spectator management and might just do the trick to a business card instead of the spectators hand. Cleaner and it leaves your contact information on a permanent souvenir.

Since you have never done double cross, you would have no idea what the spectator would think as evidenced by the fact that I was actually referring to the permanent ink that disappears from the magicians hand, not the spectators. A point you would understand if you ever actually did the effect. Ash just brushes away which is not nearly as impressive. Wiping off ash is not an effect. Vanishing permanent ink is.

Also, I'm always interested in learning new ways of introducing ash since so few people smoke these days. I don't have that issue with double cross as well, it's a sharpie, so please at least do that magicians helping magicians thing and enlighten us.

Quote:
On Apr 8, 2015, Michael Jay wrote:
No, Kaliix, the ashes aren't permanent. Of course, that's a downside to it because, as we all know, what everyone wants is someone putting permanent marker on their hands. They just love that (especially if they are a trained professional like a doctor or nurse...And their patients just love how unprofessional they look with permanent maker on their hands - it's just another bonus of helping a magician).

Also, you are correct...When they see the ashes on their hand with no logical answer as to how they got there, they just aren't as impressed as when they see a letter there. In fact, once when I did 'ashes on the hand' the guy looked at me and said, "That's not magic. The other magician that I saw made a letter appear on my hand. I know it's real magic when it's a letter and not just some old smudge. Gee, if only you had that awesome marker that makes letters appear on my hand, then you'd be a real magician."

Smile

Mike.
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel J. Boorstin
Paul S Wingham
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A smudged bit of ash compared to drawn on cross; mmmm which is more impossible. I'm not saying the ashes don't work but lets be frank; some people are going to say "he must have put it on there at some point". Now; you can argue the same about a cross, but the fact its drawn in adds another degree of seperation.

But hey; not everyone likes everything; which is no bad thing.
Michael Jay
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Kaliix, I've already published an alternative and, furthermore, I've explained alternatives earlier on this thread.

The fact of the matter is, if you need a prop to give your magic greater strength, then what you need, more than the latest and greatest props, are books that teach you how to be a magician. That's the biggest problem in magic today - too many people who think buying sharpies or apps or whatever trick du jour is going to make them a great magician.

Sadly, when someone takes the time to point this out (like another magician trying to help magicians) they simply react with ridicule and remain happy in their world of ignorance. I guess it really is bliss.

Mike.
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Slackerking
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Because you act like you're right and everyone else is wrong. Neither opinion in this case is right or wrong, they're just different. Personally the ink seems much more magical and relevant than the ash to me, however that's just my view and doesn't mean the same for everyone.
J-Mac
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MJ fits the definition of a troll perfectly. Please stop feeding it.

Smile

Jim
Michael Jay
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I have contributed some excellent material to this site and I have stated my opinion (an opinion that is backed up by glut of material that is churned out by the magic industry on a daily basis and further backed up by the writings of several past masters, including Dai Vernon, Dariel Fitzkee, Maskelyne, Devant, et. al.) and since you don't have any real argument, you revert to ad hominem attack. You might not like what I have to say, but that certainly doesn't make me a troll and it is a sad statement on the level of conversation hereabouts that you feel the need to shoot someone down by making such an accusation.

Ah, well, either way I'm done. Some people simply refuse to actually learn their art...But the real shame of it is that it only stands to bring magicians down. Too bad, really.

Mike.
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MR Effecto
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Quote:
On Apr 8, 2015, Michael Jay wrote:
Kaliix, I've already published an alternative and, furthermore, I've explained alternatives earlier on this thread.

The fact of the matter is, if you need a prop to give your magic greater strength, then what you need, more than the latest and greatest props, are books that teach you how to be a magician. That's the biggest problem in magic today - too many people who think buying sharpies or apps or whatever trick du jour is going to make them a great magician.

Sadly, when someone takes the time to point this out (like another magician trying to help magicians) they simply react with ridicule and remain happy in their world of ignorance. I guess it really is bliss.

Mike.



Theres no way you can say you never bought a gimmick or a prop. Even a deck of cards is a prop.
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