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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Latest and Greatest? » » Double Cross by Mark Southworth (From Magic Smith) (120 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Jamie Ferguson
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Michael

Have you ever had an idea stolen? I don't think so. If you did you'd understand how much it hurts.

Your point of view comes across as naive at best, ignorant at worst.

Maybe you'd be better off staying with the Bunnies rather than trying to rub shoulders with the Magical Elite here.

Cheers

J-Ferg
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Michael Jay
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I'm concerned with the idea that's been stolen and not the theft itself (the theft itself only makes this whole thing all the more absurd). Personally, if I had an idea that was destined to wind up in magicians' bottom drawers, I would welcome someone stealing it and putting their name to it rather than mine.

And don't kid yourself - this is going to wind up in the bottom drawer. Nothing creative has been added to the ashes on hand trick. The only thing being added to an already perfect trick is that now you'll need to carry your special Sharpie if you want to do the trick. If you're an amateur, this means that you'll show it to a few people and then have no more use for it. If you're a pro, you'll use it until the next latest and greatest Sharpie trick comes out and, lacking the pocket space for yet another Sharpie, you'll have no more use for it.

Assuming that as a pro you've decided that this is the last Sharpie you'll ever need or use, it will eventually run out of ink and you'll have to decide whether you want to pay the price for a brand new one or just buy the latest and greatest because you want something new and fresh in your act. Out of 100 pros buying the thing, maybe 5 of them will actually continue to use this item.

But the bottom line is that you can still perform this trick without the special Sharpie. Adding the Sharpie gives you nothing more than you had before its creation - nothing. All that has been done by adding this Sharpie is the requirement that you carry it on your person. It doesn't make the trick better - it's still the same trick. It doesn't make the trick easier - you still have to do everything that is required in the original. This Sharpie is unneeded and much of a redundancy.

Ultimately, smart performers will realize that they don't need this Sharpie to do that trick and carry a different Sharpie (whether trick or normal) for simple lack of pocket space. To the bottom drawer it will go.

Please understand that I'm not suggesting that this special Sharpie isn't clever, I'm just saying that, in the general scheme of things, it's superfluous.

And if the 'magic elite' can't understand that, then they ain't so elite.

Mike.
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Jamie Ferguson
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That's a good response Michael.

I'm now looking forward to Gary's reply.
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pegasus
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Well said Michael.
emyers99
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What about the fact that your spectator now has an 'X' written in permanent marker on his/her hand? Seems less than ideal and certainly limits when you could use this over the standard ashes on palm.
Paul S Wingham
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The world of magic would be pretty dull if we only got things we need pr at least, new releases would be limited. The ashes on the hand trick is great although in a world where smoking becomes less and less tolerated, I think it's time is nearly up. Lipstick is fine but I bet women in particular have no doubt ended up with a wayward bit of lipstick somewhere before, which to an extent doesn't help sell its impossibility. I think the idea of a permanent defined mark (not a smudge) appearing is a good step forward or at least a good idea for the right occasion. By extension; I can see some value to having one unit that contains what you need. True; there are lots of sharpie tricks out there but I only own one, which is remarkable. Personally; I liked it.

What I don't like is all the other business and I'm pleased to hear gary is getting it sorted as he strikes me as a good guy.
Michael Jay
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You are absolutely correct, Mr. Wingham (and thank you to the members, above, who understand the intent of what I'm saying).

But let's look at some facts that have come out:

First, Gary Jones wants to expose the fact that he has been ripped off. Mission accomplished.

Second, if you buy this item, then you are giving money to someone who has ripped off Mr. Jones. Do you really want to do that?

Third, you don't need this Sharpie to perform this effect with just as much power as you can without it. Worried about cigarettes? How about a fireplace. That contains ashes and with a modicum of creativity, it does the job. Or you can perform a center tear where you burn the paper...Hey! Ashes. An added effect to your garden variety center tear, no special Sharpie required.

You worry about the world of magic becoming dull. I worry about the world of magic becoming static - everyone doing the same stuff. Here's an idea: Be creative. This trick is one that has been around for over a century, so why not take it and make it something on your own, something creatively you, rather than buying a $60.00 item that makes you the same as everyone else who has bought that $60.00 item (not to mention that it is a stolen idea)?

The only thing that will make magic dull is when we all have to buy stuff created by people other than ourselves.

Mike.
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CarlMcCoy
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You don't like it then?
Magicsquared
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Quote:
On Aug 5, 2014, Michael Jay wrote:
You are absolutely correct, Mr. Wingham (and thank you to the members, above, who understand the intent of what I'm saying).

But let's look at some facts that have come out:

First, Gary Jones wants to expose the fact that he has been ripped off. Mission accomplished.

Second, if you buy this item, then you are giving money to someone who has ripped off Mr. Jones. Do you really want to do that?

Third, you don't need this Sharpie to perform this effect with just as much power as you can without it. Worried about cigarettes? How about a fireplace. That contains ashes and with a modicum of creativity, it does the job. Or you can perform a center tear where you burn the paper...Hey! Ashes. An added effect to your garden variety center tear, no special Sharpie required.

You worry about the world of magic becoming dull. I worry about the world of magic becoming static - everyone doing the same stuff. Here's an idea: Be creative. This trick is one that has been around for over a century, so why not take it and make it something on your own, something creatively you, rather than buying a $60.00 item that makes you the same as everyone else who has bought that $60.00 item (not to mention that it is a stolen idea)?

The only thing that will make magic dull is when we all have to buy stuff created by people other than ourselves.

Mike.


You don't need to be Jim Steinmeyer to realize it's easier to smudge some ashes on someone as opposed to drawing an X on them. Your audience knows this too.

And the idea that everyone who buys a trick has an identical presentation is nonsense.
Jamie Ferguson
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Guys, Gary will be along shortly to give us an update and his point of view on the comments above.

At first I thought Michael Jay was out of order in terms of what he said. As he articulated his point of view further I found myself agreeing with a lot of his points.

When I hear Gary's response I will make my mind up about how I feel, both about the trick and the claims of theft.

Until then I will wait patiently.

I suggest you all do the same.
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Paul S Wingham
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Fair comments Michael. I don't entirely disagree. Firstly though, I most definitely wouldn't buy this until all the other stuff is resolved. I've never met Gary Jones, but our paths cross frequently online, and I have heard nothing to suggest he is anything other than a good chap. Secondly, when I said the magic world would be dull I probably didn't put it well. My point was that 99% of what comes out is derivative and in most instances only incrementally improves the original concept (at best). If these sorts of increments weren't released, then perhaps some of the leaps forward wouldn't happen. I still think there is a place for things that aren't a leap forward. I say "I think" but I actually mean; there is a place for them, because people buy them and wrongly or rightly, magic is sadly a commercial enterprise for many.

So I guess what I am saying in a rambling way, is you are correct; I don't need this. To be honest, I may not ever buy it, I mean it's not cheap. but then again, I don't really need the next iphone or yet another book, but I'm sure if I don't buy it, someone else will.
Michael Jay
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Quote:
You don't need to be Jim Steinmeyer to realize it's easier to smudge some ashes on someone as opposed to drawing an X on them. Your audience knows this too.


When performed properly, the spectator never even realizes that you touched them. From their perspective, it's fully impossible that the mark could even be there, whether an x from a Sharpie, a smudge of ashes, or even a freshly picked booger.

From the advertising blurb for Double Cross:

"You're so far ahead the spectators will never remember you coming near them or even touching them."

That is precisely how the original is handled and specifically what makes this trick so very powerful.

Then again, you probably DO need to be Jim Steinmeyer to understand that.

Mike.
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Jamie Ferguson
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Nice one Mike.

You just took Magicsquared's argument to low post, drop stepped it and then slam dunked the Spalding for an easy two.

Boomshakalaka.
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Magicsquared
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Quote:
On Aug 5, 2014, Michael Jay wrote:
Quote:
You don't need to be Jim Steinmeyer to realize it's easier to smudge some ashes on someone as opposed to drawing an X on them. Your audience knows this too.


When performed properly, the spectator never even realizes that you touched them. From their perspective, it's fully impossible that the mark could even be there, whether an x from a Sharpie, a smudge of ashes, or even a freshly picked booger.

From the advertising blurb for Double Cross:

"You're so far ahead the spectators will never remember you coming near them or even touching them."

That is precisely how the original is handled and specifically what makes this trick so very powerful.

Then again, you probably DO need to be Jim Steinmeyer to understand that.

Mike.


Yeah, I get it, but one is clearly more impossible than the other. Certainly you've gotten a smudge on yourself without remembering how, but it's unlikely someone wrote an X on your hand without you noticing. Again, this is something a layman intuitively knows. And, for me, I can find many more justifications for using an X. And it doesn't limit me to areas with cigarettes or ashtrays. I know you suggested a fireplace would be a good alternative, but really? "Excuse me while I duck into this fireplace before my next routine..." I mean perhaps someone would say "Why's Pete fiddling around with the fireplace in August?" Or do you just wait until December rolls around and you're about to light a fire? That's convenient.
tomsk192
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No, you merely blaze up a fine cigar and the rest is easy Smile
Magicsquared
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I do it with the soot from the end of my crack pipe.

On one of David Acer's videos he does it with pool cue chalk and he has a good routine with it. The only problem is, if you do it in a pool hall where it's organic, your spectator may assume they could have gotten chalk on their hand at some point earlier. And if you do it outside of the pool hall, then you're the guy who carries around pool cue chalk for no reason.
Stucky
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Quote:
I worry about the world of magic becoming static - everyone doing the same stuff.


Too late.
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gjmagic
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Thank you for everyone's input on this.......my idea wasn't just an X, it was also playing cards, numbers and anything else that would fit onto the gimmick.

As for the the other part of this, Magic Smith had no knowledge of my involvement in this idea so no blame there, and, I'm going to put this down to experience, I have bigger issues in life to deal with and it's only a trick!

I'm done now, but thank you for expressing your opinions, time to finish my beer Smile

Regards,

Gary.
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Paul S Wingham
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That's the attitude. Life is way way way too short to let magic ever get you down.
Jamie Ferguson
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I agree. Life is way too short.

I'm surprised Mark Southworth hasn't been along yet to give us his point of view.

Let's hope we see him soon.
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