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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Latest and Greatest? » » Double Cross by Mark Southworth (From Magic Smith) (118 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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pegasus
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I wonder if this will be available in the UK in the near future. I'd love to see how the dirty work is accomplished. It's too expensive to chuck in the bottom drawer IMO.
Michael Jay
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Quote:
On Aug 5, 2014, Magicsquared wrote:
Yeah, I get it, but one is clearly more impossible than the other. Certainly you've gotten a smudge on yourself without remembering how, but it's unlikely someone wrote an X on your hand without you noticing. Again, this is something a layman intuitively knows. And, for me, I can find many more justifications for using an X. And it doesn't limit me to areas with cigarettes or ashtrays. I know you suggested a fireplace would be a good alternative, but really? "Excuse me while I duck into this fireplace before my next routine..." I mean perhaps someone would say "Why's Pete fiddling around with the fireplace in August?" Or do you just wait until December rolls around and you're about to light a fire? That's convenient.


What a layman intuitively knows? The layman intuitively knows that which you allow them to. Fitzkee said it better than I ever could:

        "The true skill of the magician is in the skill he exhibits in influencing the spectator's mind. This is not a thing of mechanics. It is not a thing of digital dexterity. It is entirely a thing of psychological attack. It is completely a thing of controlling the spectator's thinking. Control of the perceptive faculties has nothing whatever to do with it. Convincingly interpreting, to the spectator, what the senses bring to him, in such a way that the magician's objectives are accomplished, is the true skill of the skilled magician.

        "So I must insist again: Shell bottles do not constitute any part of the true secrets of magic. Neither do folding bird cages. Neither do billiard ball shells. Nor Svengali packs. Nor forcing decks. Nor flap slates. Nor pulled threads. Nor folding flowers. Nor any apparatus of any kind.

        "The real secrets of magic are those whereby the magician is able to influence the mind of the spectator, even in the face of that spectator's definite knowledge that the magician is absolutely unable to do what that spectator ultimately must admit he does do.

        "Here is a secret!

        "This skilled magician is an adept at disguise and attention control. He employs physical disguise with his apparatus. He employs psychological disguise-simulation, dissimulation, maneuver, ruse, suggestion and inducement. He exercises absolute control over the attention of his spectator by forestalling it, by catching it relaxed, by dulling it, by scattering it, by diverting it, by distracting it, and by openly moving it away.

        "He cleverly, skillfully and dexterously mixes the true with the false. With equal facility he convincingly interprets matters to accomplish his own ends. He contrives to so influence the things the spectator perceives that the latter is aware of them as the magician desires. All is built upon an unshakable foundation of naturalness, plausibility and conviction.

        "Here is real skill! Here are genuine secrets!"

        - Dariel Fitzkee -


Your way is limited to your Sharpie - if you don't have it, you can't do the trick. I, however, can do it anywhere, anytime. But then again, I have a modicum of creativity. I'm sorry that you don't.

Mike.
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Kaliix
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First, hey great Fitzkee quote.

Second, you cannot do "the trick" anytime anywhere. You can do a variation of the trick but it will not involve the startling disappearance of the ink from the magicians hand or the appearance of a drawing on the spectators. Now that is not to take anything away from the ashes/lipstick/whatever version one can do impromptu. It is a great trick.

But this particular trick involves some differences that are key to enhancing the effect. The disappearance of what is seemingly permanent ink is stronger than simply rubbing away a substance on ones hand. Most people have gotten ink on their hand and understand the permanence of that state. It's disappearance is a strong effect in itself. Further, the appearance of a hand drawn symbol is stronger than ashes appearing on the spectators palm. Smart spectators will be deduce that the magician sneaked the substance in place. Even if they don't know how, they have a solution to hold on to and that is all that matters (particularly because they are right). But a hand drawn ink symbol is different and more powerful as it is writing and no solution is readily apparent. It leads to a path which has a much greater chance of being a dead end. IMHO, your mileage may vary...

Quote:
On Aug 6, 2014, Michael Jay wrote:

Your way is limited to your Sharpie - if you don't have it, you can't do the trick. I, however, can do it anywhere, anytime. But then again, I have a modicum of creativity. I'm sorry that you don't.

Mike.
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel J. Boorstin
Michael Jay
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You're right. Smart spectators will know that you somehow sneaked it onto their hand, as opposed to the Sharpie where they will believe that it's real magic.

Yep, you're right. My bad.

Mike.
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simon hughes
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I miss Niggler.
Kaliix
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Who said anything about real magic? I believe that I stated " a hand drawn ink symbol is different and more powerful as it is writing and no solution is readily apparent. It leads to a path which has a much greater chance of being a dead end."

I'm sorry you missed the point about there being a big difference between an ash smudge and a hand drawn symbol, with one having an obvious and correct solution, while the other one being much less obvious and more convincing but I appreciate you at least admitting I was right.

Thanks.


Quote:
On Aug 6, 2014, Michael Jay wrote:
You're right. Smart spectators will know that you somehow sneaked it onto their hand, as opposed to the Sharpie where they will believe that it's real magic.

Yep, you're right. My bad.

Mike.
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel J. Boorstin
Magicsquared
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Michael, you need to re-read your Fitzkee. Fitzkee never recommended underestimating spectator's intelligence, but god knows you're not unique in making that mistake around here.

The layman doesn't "intuitively know that which you allow them to." In fact, that's the exact opposite of what "intuitively" means. There is knowledge that a spectator brings to an effect.

Let's pretend it wasn't a magic trick. What would you find more puzzling. You're getting ready for bed at night and you find a grey smudge on your palm OR you find an X written on your palm. That's all I'm saying; one is inherently more impossible. To imply that a spectator would only understand that if you "allowed" them to is embarrassing.

That's not to say a better performer couldn't get more mileage out of the ashes trick. It's only to say that the greater impossibility of this might appeal to some people, or the convenience of it, or perhaps they see greater presentational possibilities.
pegasus
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Have you received yours yet Magicsquared? What's the verdict?
pegasus
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Considering it was a sellout at a recent magic convention I'm surprised there's no reviews yet.
Magicsquared
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Quote:
On Aug 7, 2014, pegasus wrote:
Have you received yours yet Magicsquared? What's the verdict?


I'm in LA for work and it's in my PO Box in NYC. As soon as I get back there I'll give an initial review.
CarlMcCoy
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Quote:
On Aug 7, 2014, Michael Jay wrote:
You're right. Smart spectators will know that you somehow sneaked it onto their hand, as opposed to the Sharpie where they will believe that it's real magic.

Yep, you're right. My bad.

Mike.


You really can't stop trying to sound important, can you?
You're really not doing yourself any favours...to me it seems that all this posturing is simply to give yourself a podium from which it speak. You're doing the same on your forum too, but then from what I've read there, that seems to be par for the course.

Bit sad if you ask me.

But you didn't...so whatever.
Legendary Wizard
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Coming back to this topic again ... Just clarifying , is the ink refillable ?
" Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one " ...

- Albert Einstein
Legendary Wizard
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I presume no special ink is involved here . Smile
" Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one " ...

- Albert Einstein
Magicsquared
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Okay, here's the deal. I got mine today but have not performed it yet. Here are my initial thoughts.

You get the sharpie and a link to a 10 minute download (and something else you need for the effect).

The download covers everything you need to get started.

The Sharpie definitely seems to be a pretty good quality item, there's a lot going on in this little pen.

I think if you like the effect, then you will be happy with the construction of the item.

My concern is how long this this is going to last. And that's a question I can't answer right now. If this is something I can use fairly regularly for a couple of years, then I think the price is fair. However if it's going to be "used up" in three months, then I think the price is too high.
PendletonThe3rd
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Just got this too and it is brilliant! Does everything it said it would. Completely self contained, practical, simple, and you can have it in your pocket ready to go at any time with no set up. I love that about this.

Prop is great, very well thought out. And indeed diabolical!

The video instructions (via a link), are to the point, no overly long drawn out explanations. Yet, the routine is so elegant in the way everything is thought out. All the dirty work is pretty much baked into the routine with natural movements, and so simple to do, the audience wont see it coming or know how you did it.

The video even shares thoughts on repeating the effect in a different manner to change up the element of surprise. I like that!

Once again, another great product from MagicSmith. I always have departure and ignition on me and this will be no exception.

If I had to be nit picky, I would have preferred that the sharpie be a bit more accurate to the real thing in a certain aesthetic regard. At the risk of exposure, I wont say what it is about it, aesthetically, but to be fair, I could tell this from watching the demo and purchased it anyway. So not a huge deal, but it seems as though they could have made it to the actual aesthetic design of a Sharpie Fine Point and still have the Double Cross Sharpie do its thing. For all I know, though, maybe the design is an actual Sharpie one and I'm just not familiar with it?

Anyway, that's my only nit pick.

Other than that, hopefully the prop will last and once it eventually drys up, hopefully MagicSmith will have a refill deal of sorts.

That's all I got but I look forward to using this more as it is definitely a strong piece of magic and a prop that does not disappoint!
Legendary Wizard
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Finally a review here . Thanks for the extra info .
" Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one " ...

- Albert Einstein
pegasus
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Thanks for the reviews. Sounds promising so far.
J-Mac
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Quote:
On Aug 8, 2014, PendletonThe3rd wrote:

If I had to be nit picky, I would have preferred that the sharpie be a bit more accurate to the real thing in a certain aesthetic regard. At the risk of exposure, I wont say what it is about it, aesthetically, but to be fair, I could tell this from watching the demo and purchased it anyway. So not a huge deal, but it seems as though they could have made it to the actual aesthetic design of a Sharpie Fine Point and still have the Double Cross Sharpie do its thing. For all I know, though, maybe the design is an actual Sharpie one and I'm just not familiar with it?

Anyway, that's my only nit pick.


Upon watching the demo video on MagicSmith's site, that doesn’t look like a Sharpie at all. The description says "Sharpie pen", and I know that Sharpie now has ink pens that are not markers. However I own some of those - both types, with cap and retractable - and neither the pens nor Sharpie markers look like the writing instrument used in the demo video.

Hopefully someone from MagicSmith can drop in and explain the difference.

Thank you.

Jim
Legendary Wizard
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Quote:
On Aug 10, 2014, J-Mac wrote:
Quote:
On Aug 8, 2014, PendletonThe3rd wrote:

If I had to be nit picky, I would have preferred that the sharpie be a bit more accurate to the real thing in a certain aesthetic regard. At the risk of exposure, I wont say what it is about it, aesthetically, but to be fair, I could tell this from watching the demo and purchased it anyway. So not a huge deal, but it seems as though they could have made it to the actual aesthetic design of a Sharpie Fine Point and still have the Double Cross Sharpie do its thing. For all I know, though, maybe the design is an actual Sharpie one and I'm just not familiar with it?

Anyway, that's my only nit pick.


Upon watching the demo video on MagicSmith's site, that doesn’t look like a Sharpie at all. The description says "Sharpie pen", and I know that Sharpie now has ink pens that are not markers. However I own some of those - both types, with cap and retractable - and neither the pens nor Sharpie markers look like the writing instrument used in the demo video.

Hopefully someone from MagicSmith can drop in and explain the difference.

Thank you.

Jim


Some advertising text may be misleading . But I don't see the reason why Magic Smith will be doing so . Perhaps they should include a normal marker that matches the one used in the video .
" Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one " ...

- Albert Einstein
J-Mac
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Quote:
On Aug 10, 2014, Magician560 wrote:

Some advertising text may be misleading . But I don't see the reason why Magic Smith will be doing so . Perhaps they should include a normal marker that matches the one used in the video .


I'm not asking for a "normal marker", nor am I complaining about misleading advertising. I'm just noting that the marker/pen used in the video doesn’t appear to be a Sharpie, and if it is not then what is it? Video doesn’t show it clearly enough to see what it actually is.

Why do I think I need to know? Because at $60.00 I want to know exactly what props I am getting. That's all.

Jim
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