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General_Magician Special user United States 707 Posts |
Here are some core principles of Benjamin Graham that are valid today as they were during his lifetime:
1) A stock is not just a ticker symbol or an electronic blip; it is an ownership interest in an actual business, with an underlying value that does not depend on its share price. 2) The market is a pendulum that forever swings between unsustainable optimism (which makes stocks too expensive) and unjustified pessimism (which makes stocks too cheap). The intelligent investor is a realist who sells to optimists and buys from pessimists. 3) The future value of every investment is a function of its present price. The higher the price you pay, the lower your return will be. 4) No matter how careful you are, the one risk no investor can ever eliminate is the risk of being wrong. Only by insisting on what is called a "Margin of Safety" which is never overpaying, no matter how exciting an investment seems to be- can you minimize your odds of error. And the most important lesson of all: 5) The secret to your financial success is inside yourself. If you become a critical thinker who takes no Wall Street "fact" on faith, and you invest with patient confidence, you can take steady advantage of even the worst bear markets. By developing your discipline and courage, you can refuse to let other people's mood swings govern your financial destiny. In the end, how your investments behave is much less important than how you behave. You can see some life lessons in Benjamin Graham's teachings.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown
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General_Magician Special user United States 707 Posts |
Now here is something that has happened to me (getting ripped off by somebody with a pen) and I paid the price for my mistake of not reading a contract I once signed (which I feel I was tricked into it and people do use trickery to get people to sign contracts):
"You can get ripped off easier by a dude with a pen than you can by a dude with a gun." -Bo Diddley Found that quote in Benjamin Graham's "Intelligent Investor" and it's very true.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
The trick is to simply READ and understand a document BEFORE you sign it. And if you don't understand it, either walk away or have it reviewed by an attorney.
And critical thinking involves a lot more than making decisions based on dogmatic adherence to aphorisms and slogans. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21214 Posts |
The ability to learn from mistakes is absolutely critical. You can't learn until you admit them. Hiding behind "I feel I was tricked" implied you had no part in it. This is not learning.
William I am being sincere and not trolling. You have a way of doing this. It does not help because it passes responsibility along from you. Admitting you have made a mistake is essential to learning from experience is your responsibility to understand things before you sign them.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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General_Magician Special user United States 707 Posts |
People can use subtle deception to trick you into a contract (the allegations of deception is a he said she said thing that cannot always be proven). So, though it may seem "well how hard is it to simply read before you sign" the fact of the matter, some of the best and most cunning robbers don't come at you with a gun or a firearm and an angry face committing an illegal act, rather some of the most cunning and biggest robbers come at you with false smiles and the use of deception and pens and contracts and using the law in their favor. That's true and a life lesson I learned the hard way myself and I paid the price for it.
But on the flip side, it gave me good credit because I met and honored my contract obligations even though I never wanted them in the first place (I had little choice given my signature was on the contract). It's probably the only reason why I have good credit in the first place. They will also not tell you about or mention a contract at all but will get you to sign a piece of paper. Somebody who has never been to law school and lacks life experience is less likely to know better or see the trap that is being set for him. Bo Diddley, who I quoted from Graham's bok, was merely telling it like it is. I am sure this is a life lesson he learned the hard way too. Quote:
The trick is to simply READ and understand a document BEFORE you sign it. And if you don't understand it, either walk away or have it reviewed by an attorney. I won't sign anything now until I read and understand and genuinely agree with or to it and if it's something I don't understand, I will take it to my attorney for her to review.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown
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magicfish Inner circle 7002 Posts |
Grahams philosophies are pure gold.
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General_Magician Special user United States 707 Posts |
Quote:
On Aug 3, 2014, magicfish wrote: I absolutely agree. His wisdom and knowledge has served me well thus far and I am grateful for his willingness to share his knowledge in the books he has written. He is from a bygone era that were also tough times too (the Great Depression).
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
For those who base their decisions on aphorisms, here are a few excellent ones to consider:
“You cannot swim for new horizons until you have courage to lose sight of the shore.” ― William Faulkner “Never was anything great achieved without danger.” ― Niccolò Machiavelli “Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat.” ― Theodore Roosevelt, Strenuous Life “Why not go out on a limb? That's where the fruit is.” ― Will Rogers “Fortune sides with him who dares.” ― Virgil |
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General_Magician Special user United States 707 Posts |
Quote:
On Aug 3, 2014, mastermindreader wrote: I think you sometimes mislabel or throw the "aphorism" card around a little too much when it comes to wisdom garnered through tough experience. You should not be so dismissive of wisdom garnered through tough life experience. I understand you are much older and have been living longer than myself, but I think you under-estimate the wisdom of others such as Benjamin Graham who came before you, despite your older age. What he has to say is not just simply aphorisms, but is something valuable to learn from.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown
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magicfish Inner circle 7002 Posts |
Warren Buffet still has a copy of the Graham book in his desk at Berkshire Hathaway.
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21214 Posts |
Pete Rose could give you the book he first learned hitting from and unless you have the skills a disciple and everything he has you will not hit as well. Not even close. Worse yet is if you think you know what it says but are blind to learning it is really over. But continue with useless platitudes by all means.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Quote:
On Aug 3, 2014, General_Magician wrote: Life lesson: Consult a lawyer before you decide you have "little choice." There are things like fraud that make some contracts voidable.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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magicfish Inner circle 7002 Posts |
Quote: I respectfully disagree. Hitting a ball is a physical act that requires hand eye coordination and physical talent and athleticism. Yes, petes book could help you hit better, but it wouldnt make you hit like Pete.
On Aug 3, 2014, Dannydoyle wrote: However, choosing, buying and holding companies based on Grahams philosophies will make you profit. See Peter Lynch's stats on this for further reading. The trick is having the discipline to stick to Grahams principles. Oh wait, maybe we agree. Let me go outside and see if the planets are aligned. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21214 Posts |
Exactly we do agree. It is about being able to implement the tactics. It is about reading and UNDERSTANDING what is written.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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General_Magician Special user United States 707 Posts |
Yeah, but nobody is really talking in "platitudes" or "aphorisms" as Danny and Bob claim or allege. They are just offering an unwarranted dismissive attitude towards some of Benjamin Grahams' pieces of wisdom that when applied, will serve anybody well. Benjamin Graham and Warren Buffet spoke favorably of index funds because of their cheap costs in comparison to actively managed funds and the fact that you never had to worry about your fund manager changing (their is no fund manager). Investment, is also a long term proposition that depends on buying and holding and not some kind of get rich quick scheme (at least from Graham's perspective).
Quote:
Life lesson: Consult a lawyer before you decide you have "little choice." There are things like fraud that make some contracts voidable. It would seem like that would be a tough fight to prove fraud. Not only that, but I would be going up against a wealthy business and possibly a wealthy bank capable of hiring a much better legal team than what I could afford. They could claim that no fraud took place and who would the jury believe when I have no proof to back up my claims? Their side have some kind of proof which is the contract and me, well all I had was an allegation with no proof to back it up. In the meantime, if I didn't pay on the loan, my credit would take a beating. Not only that, I reckon it would be too late now given that I paid off the contract and it was years ago. At the time, I didn't think I had much choice and the bank threw up in my face that I signed a contract when I talked to them on the phone and told them I didn't want the loan (and I never saw a bank or anybody who worked for a bank when I signed that contract). And it would seem like a lawyer wouldn't be willing to take such a case on a contingency basis, especially if it would be difficult to prove any fraud took place. I won't mention any names here on a public forum out of fear of being sued for defamation (defamation is also a tool to shut somebody up, even if they are telling the truth). If Jesse Ventura can successfully sue the estate of a deceased Navy SEAL combat veteran then I am sure a business could sue me successfully as well for Defamation if started mentioning names. Some people and businesses have no shame. Well at least Jesse Ventura isn't welcome at anymore Navy SEAL reunions anymore.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Like I always say, "Nothing ventured, nothing gained." So if you don't venture you can't gain, and a gain without a venture is nothing because if you don't venture anything you don't gain anything but I think joint ventures are a good thing provided they pay dividends which are really gains if you think about it.
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S2000magician Inner circle Yorba Linda, CA 3465 Posts |
Quote:
On Aug 3, 2014, General_Magician wrote: If the contract is clear in its terms, what fraud was perpetrated? If you believed what the other party said, rather than what was written in the contract you were signing, then the fault lies squarely with you. |
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Bob1Dog Inner circle Wife: It's me or this houseful of 1159 Posts |
Quote:
On Aug 3, 2014, General_Magician wrote: I hope that's true. Shame on him. While Ventura may have been right in his claim that he wasn't punched out by the SEAL, he could have handled this whole thing entirely more respectfully. But to go after the dead SEAL's wife? Shame on him.
What if the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about?
My neighbor rang my doorbell at 2:30 a.m. this morning, can you believe that, 2:30 a.m.!? Lucky for him I was still up playing my drums. |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Quote:
On Aug 3, 2014, S2000magician wrote: Perhaps, but not necessarily the legal liability.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
There might well have been fraud in the inducement to enter the contract.
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