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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
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On Aug 4, 2014, S2000magician wrote: And a good investment too? I predict it will go sky high! |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
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On Aug 4, 2014, balducci wrote: Actually, I wasn't thinking of Jesse when I wrote it. I was just parodying a certain writing style. |
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General_Magician Special user United States 707 Posts |
That courtroom isn't about the truth, it's about making the lawyers rich. Plenty of people been falsely convicted by a jury and later found innocent through DNA testing and plenty of guilty people walk free because they have money or are or have been in positions of power. I believe Jesse was shooting his mouth off and got punched out for it. People will sue successfully, even if you were telling the truth, just shut you up. Just because Jesse won his lawsuit doesn't mean that what Chris Kyle said wasn't true. I believe Chris punched out Jesse and I don't believe Chris would just eat his rice krispies one morning and say "HEY! Let's just go punch Jesse Ventura out just for no reason! Just for kicks!" Things just don't work that way.
Anyway, back to the thread. The alternative to investing in actively managed funds is that when a fund manager has the midas touch and everything he touches turns to gold, then other funds want him too so they can make money off of that fund manager. So, he is quickly scooped up by another fund and the fund you initially invested has a new fund manager. Who knows if that fund manager will be just as good. Not only that, actively managed funds are more expensive, have more trading costs and over the long term those costs add up and harm your return on investment while the cost savings of index funds add up and increase your return on investment. Over the long term, index funds outperform most actively managed funds and you get a better return on investment over the long term. And investment is a long term proposition. The first and most important thing to look at in any fund is not the fund manager or it's recent returns, but rather, it's cost to you the investor. Index funds are cheaper because it's not managed by anybody.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown
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S2000magician Inner circle Yorba Linda, CA 3465 Posts |
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On Aug 4, 2014, General_Magician wrote: Yes: you've mentioned these before. Nobody here appears to disagree with this. |
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General_Magician Special user United States 707 Posts |
Well there you go, case closed! Invest in index funds over actively managed funds. Just make sure those index funds aren't overpriced in what they charge. Nothing more to debate about! That's what I have been saying along but you guys wanted to argue against index funds in favor of actively managed funds because some say actively managed funds outperform index funds. But the fact remains, you make more money off index funds if you wish to invest your money (and by investing, I mean it's a long term proposition).
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown
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S2000magician Inner circle Yorba Linda, CA 3465 Posts |
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On Aug 4, 2014, General_Magician wrote: Nobody here said anything of the sort. Not in this thread, and not in any of the other threads on investing in which you've participated. If you have any evidence to the contrary, please present it. If not, please stop accusing us of doing things we aren't doing. |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
You've completely missed the point once again. This discussion is pointless.
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
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On Aug 4, 2014, General_Magician wrote: Some actively managed funds (and fund managers) DO outperform index funds. Who's been arguing against index funds? The only thing most have been arguing over here is your dogma, seeing everything in black/white terms.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts |
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On Aug 4, 2014, S2000magician wrote: FWIW, I do recall that there were some arguing in favour of actively managed funds in a since deleted thread.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Exactly. But I am most impressed that General seems to know more about the evidence in the Ventura case than the judge, jury and witnesses did.
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S2000magician Inner circle Yorba Linda, CA 3465 Posts |
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On Aug 4, 2014, mastermindreader wrote: I hate when I do that. Sorry. |
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S2000magician Inner circle Yorba Linda, CA 3465 Posts |
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On Aug 4, 2014, LobowolfXXX wrote: Rarely do they do it long-term, however (whatever long-term is). |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
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On Aug 4, 2014, General_Magician wrote: This is about as insightful and accurate as saying something like, "Magic isn't about entertaining people. It's about learning how to do tricks. Anyone can go on Youtube for a day and become a magician." Yes, lawyers get paid a good hourly rate. So do doctors. So do magicians. So do baseball players. Quote:
Plenty of people been falsely convicted by a jury and later found innocent through DNA testing and plenty of guilty people walk free because they have money or are or have been in positions of power. Mistakes happen in every field. Patients die in surgery. Magicians drop cards. Guilty people are SUPPOSED to go free, btw, because the burden of proof for criminal conviction is so high. If every juror thinks it's 80% likely that a defendant committed a crime, the correct verdict is "Not Guilty." Quote:
I believe Jesse was shooting his mouth off and got punched out for it. People will sue successfully, even if you were telling the truth, just shut you up. Just because Jesse won his lawsuit doesn't mean that what Chris Kyle said wasn't true. ...and just because you believe him doesn't mean what he said WAS true. Quote:
I believe Chris punched out Jesse and I don't believe Chris would just eat his rice krispies one morning and say "HEY! Let's just go punch Jesse Ventura out just for no reason! Just for kicks!" Things just don't work that way. This is rather typical of your black or white thinking. I agree with you that he probably had a reason. That doesn't mean that the reason was what he said it was. Do you think Jesse Ventura, a former Navy Seal who values his ongoing relationship with military members, woke up one morning and said, "I'm glad some of those guys died"? Is that how the world works?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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S2000magician Inner circle Yorba Linda, CA 3465 Posts |
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On Aug 4, 2014, balducci wrote: I must have missed that one. Too bad it was deleted; I'd have liked to have seen it. Thanks, b. |
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S2000magician Inner circle Yorba Linda, CA 3465 Posts |
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On Aug 4, 2014, LobowolfXXX wrote: So do active fund managers. |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
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On Aug 4, 2014, S2000magician wrote: Clearly.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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S2000magician Inner circle Yorba Linda, CA 3465 Posts |
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On Aug 3, 2014, General_Magician wrote: These all sound like investing lessons. How do they apply to life more generally? |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Quote: “When the enemy of my enemy is willing to use plasma weapons inside a hotel, I think I can do better than stupid aphorisms, General. |
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w_s_anderson Inner circle The United States 1226 Posts |
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On Aug 4, 2014, S2000magician wrote: I think it was me.....There were a lot of "half-truths" being told as financial gospel regarding index funds and managed funds. If I remember right I was just playing devils advocate and it didn't set well with some I guess. I don't know why it got deleted though, at that time it was a pretty benign thread. Well, I think it was me that Balducci was referring to. |
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General_Magician Special user United States 707 Posts |
I didn't take your opinions the wrong way Anderson. You are entitled to your opinions. I disagree with you in that managed funds provide a better return on investment in the long term. Based on what I have reading, in the long term they do not and it makes sense why they don't. Mainly because the cost savings of index funds add up over time and that fund managers change often with many actively managed fund which means the successful fund manager could get hired out by a new company plus the trading costs associated with actively managed funds in addition to it's higher costs. So, the cost savings, really begin to add up and make money themselves in addition to the savings given that those savings are invested.
Costs generally stay the same with funds, but not managers, unless of course, it's an index fund, which is no manager. And on top of that, the first thing an investor should look at when looking at mutual funds is cost, given that cost rarely ever changes and if it does, it most likely would be going up rather than down in cost. But manager do change and their is no guarantee that the next manager will be as good or bad as the worst, but this is something you don't have to worry about with index funds when it comes to managers given that they don't have any managers at all. And not to get off topic, I will believe Chris Kyle because one he is a fellow Iraq and Afghan Vet and I don't turn my back on my fellow vets. I'll take his word over that clown Jesse Ventura any day. Here is an a video from one of Chris Kyle's Navy SEAL room mates and he simply can't understand why the American judicial system could come up with a verdict like that. He seems surprised and shocked, but I am personally not surprised or shocked at all: http://foxnewsinsider.com/2014/07/30/chr......-verdict Quote:
Ben Smith, Kyle's roommate during SEAL training, still disputes that his friend lied about the confrontation, which occurred at a memorial service for a SEAL who had been killed when he jumped on a grenade. Jesse Ventura's lawsuit and the verdict is nothing more than just rubbing more salt in wounds that Jesse himself knows nothing about. The link also has an interview of Chris Kyles fellow Navy SEAL room mate.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown
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