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General_Magician Special user United States 707 Posts |
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On Aug 11, 2014, LobowolfXXX wrote: So this case would be settled out of court?
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Can't say for sure about any particular case, but an overwhelming majority are dismissed or settled.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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General_Magician Special user United States 707 Posts |
Yes, my attorney mentioned things like Motion to Dismiss or having some sort of Summary Judgement. I assume if the case never makes it to a jury, then it will either be dismissed or some kind of Summary Judgement will be rendered? I am not sure of the whole process honestly. Is Summary Judgement part of an out of court settlement? Or is it some sort of judgement that rules in favor of one party over the other?
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Summary judgment is in favor of one side. It's when the parties agree as to all of the material facts, and one side is entitled to judgment. In other words, they're not arguing over what happened; they're arguing over what the legal result should be. That's one way a case never makes it to trial. Another is settlement. Another is a dismissal, which can happen for various reasons.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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General_Magician Special user United States 707 Posts |
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On Aug 11, 2014, LobowolfXXX wrote: In the case of dismissal, can the defendant get the judge to rule that the plaintiff owes on his attorney's fees? Meaning, because the case was dismissed, can a judge rule that the plaintiff then must pay on the defendant's legal fees that the defendant had to pay in order to get the case dismissed? Or in most cases of dismissal, the defendant still has to eat the cost of his legal fees without being able to get the plaintiff to pay those legal fees? Or what about in cases where it goes to trial and the jury rules in favor of the defendant, can the defendant get his legal fees paid for by the plaintiff since it was the plaintiff that dragged him into court in the first place? Or in most cases, this doesn't happen?
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
It can happen, but in most cases it doesn't. If losing parties were required to pay costs, people with legitimate claims would be very hesitant to go to court. If, however, a case is deemed to have been frivolous, it is more likely that the court will assess costs against the party who filed the suit.
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General_Magician Special user United States 707 Posts |
So, as a defendant in a lawsuit, you can find yourself buried in legal fees, so even if you win your case, YOU STILL LOSE because you still have to pay out on legal fees. Which is why prevention of the costs of the courtroom or any legal fees is far more important than winning cases. Just do whatever you can to not end up in court in the first place. The plaintiff of course, could be on the hook for his own legal fees for taking a case to court and not winning his suit. Liability insurance certainly helps in defending lawsuits.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
And if you're sued for an amount higher that your insurance coverage, you'll still have to hire your own attorney if the insurance company agrees to pay the full policy limit.
Actually, if you have NO insurance or any substantial assets, your less likely to be sued because it simply wouldn't be worth it. If, on the other hand, you have a million dollar policy, you may find yourself MORE likely to be on the wrong end of a lawsuit. |
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General_Magician Special user United States 707 Posts |
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Actually, if you have NO insurance or any substantial assets, your less likely to be sued because it simply wouldn't be worth it. If, on the other hand, you have a million dollar policy, you may find yourself MORE likely to be on the wrong end of a lawsuit. So, should people just forgo having a liability insurance policy then? Is that a good idea? I mean, if you are less likely to be sued by not having a policy, why should anybody bother with liability insurance then? Or should you have a liability insurance policy ONLY if you have substantial assets and if don't have substantial assets you can just skate on by worry free not having to pay for a liability policy because then it just wouldn't be worth anybody's time to sue you anyway because you are poor, right? You wouldn't have to worry because you are poor and not worth anybody's time. You can just kick back and chill because you don't have anything or much to take LOL! Couldn't a court order your future earnings garnished to satisfy a judgement though? Even if I am broke and poor and don't have much to take, I am not so sure I would want to take the chance of having any of my future earnings garnished by an unpaid judgement. What do you think Bob?
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown
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Ray Tupper. Special user NG16. 749 Posts |
No insurance?
If you've got your investments(401K)tied up in someone elses name, and you don't own a house, you're home and dry. Nothing to be sued for...You can't pay. Invest your insurance premiums into foreign stock, obviously allowing for the low exchange rate against the Euro, Sterling, or the Matabele gumbo bead. You should be rubbing your hands together Good luck! Ray.
What do we want?
A cure for tourettes! When do we want it? C*nt! |
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General_Magician Special user United States 707 Posts |
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On Aug 11, 2014, Ray Tupper. wrote: Cool! I'll just drop my insurance policy and save a boatload of money! Ha! Take those savings and continue to invest it in my 401(k). I can just kick back and chill because I am a poor broke *** anyway. You know what they say, the more money you got the more problems you got. Sometimes, it's nice to be a broke poor *** LOL!
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
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On Aug 11, 2014, General_Magician wrote: Leave it to you to come to a conclusion that has nothing whatsoever to do with the point of my post- which was simply to point out that even if you have insurance, if you are sued for more than the policy limits you'll have to retain your own attorney anyway - i.e., insurance doesn't provide complete protection. As to being judgment proof if you have few assets, that's just a fact. Amazing how you've twisted that into the conclusion that I said you shouldn't have insurance. (And as to garnishing your wages, I thought you were an independent contractor and not a wage employee.) |
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General_Magician Special user United States 707 Posts |
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Leave it to you to come to a conclusion that has nothing whatsoever to do with the point of my post- which was simply to point out that even if you have insurance, if you are sued for more than the policy limits you'll have to retain your own attorney anyway - i.e., insurance doesn't provide complete protection. As to being judgment proof if you have few assets, that's just a fact. Yes, I am an independent contractor, not a wage employee. But even as an independent contractor, could I have my wages (I mean earnings) garnished? Couldn't future wages be garnished and do any of these judgements accrue interest as well as go on your credit? For example, even if I have few assets, a judgement can still be made against me and could go on my credit plus accrue interest can't it? And future earnings can be garnished I assume, even if you are an independent contractor, correct? It sounds like you were saying that if you have few assets, then just don't worry about liability insurance because if you have few assets and then get an insurance policy, you are making the possibility of getting sued greater not less. Nobody wants to get sued! Why should anybody get insurance if they have very little assets and getting the insurance only increases the likelihood of getting sued? Shouldn't they just ditch the insurance and just not worry given that they are then judgement proof?
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
I never suggested anything of the sort. Simply pointed out some simple facts. Don't advertise the fact that you have substantial insurance coverage and you won't attract any law suits.
And what, may I ask, are you worried about getting sued over? You seem to be almost paranoid about that. |
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General_Magician Special user United States 707 Posts |
Porbably a good idea Bob. But still, seriously, why keep insurance if you have very little assets anyway? You are judgement proof when you have very little assets so why bother paying the premiums for insurance?
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
That's a decision only you can make. I don't know your circumstances.
And what, may I ask, are you worried about getting sued over as a magician? You seem to be almost paranoid about that. (I've been in this business for over forty years and have never been sued.) |
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General_Magician Special user United States 707 Posts |
I don't know, somebody might not like my jokes. To be honest, I just like to plan and be prepared for the worst and hope for the best. Lawsuits seem to come out of nowhere these days. Just like with this Florida-Georgia Line lawsuit, all over a check that was cashed too early. That can happen to anybody, even a magician. Didn't seem like this would cause a lawsuit but it did. I guess you never know what some people will do. All I can do is worry about what I can control and be ready for the worst case scenario. Plan and prepare for the worst and hope for the best. Fail to plan plan to fail.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown
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Pecan_Creek Veteran user The Nation of TEXAS! 323 Posts |
I didn't know Nancy Grace was a magician.
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General_Magician Special user United States 707 Posts |
I personally think it's a smart idea if you are going to go into business for yourself, no matter what line of work you go into, to set up an LLC. It's a good standard business practice plus you don't want to half rear end it. If you are going take Vienna, take Vienna. And their are many benefits to setting up an LLC beyond helping to shield you from legal liabilities you might face as a business owner (but again, their is no guarantee in the courtroom). Not only that, contracts is good business and spells out exactly the terms of business so that their is no he said she said and no confusion and it keeps everybody honest. In addition, I have had an opportunity to book several magicians besides myself in one business opportunity. Well guess what? If you book several magicians besides yourself, you are vicariously liable for those other magicians and their is a possibility you could be found vicariously liable for those other magicians even if they are independent contractors. Their is no guarantee as to what a courtroom will determine. So, if you don't have an LLC set up and you want to make some money off other magicians from work you lined up and they go off and do something stupid, next thing you know a court could be holding you personally responsible under vicarious liability and you will end up paying up all kinds of damages because somebody else wanted to be an idiot because you didn't have an LLC set up and the proper legal paperwork in order with solid contracts.
And just because your judgement proof doesn't mean that a courtroom can't go and take your future earnings and yes, btw, that judgement shows up on your credit report and from what I have been told can accrue interest on top of it. So, it's probably a smart idea that if you are serious about making money and going into business for yourself that you consult an attorney and incorporate or set up an LLC and let an attorney handle some of the legal aspects as they arise and as you can afford to hire an attorney. You might think those legal fees are expensive or un-necessary but you know what's more expensive and un-necessary? A 15 million dollar judgement over your head. Right now, my attorney has drafted independent contractor agreements as well as an agreement between my company and my clients that utilizes independent contractors besides myself. This will give other magicians business opportunities to make money, my company can grow and make more money and it's easier to write one check for my client to my company so that I can pay off the magicians I independently contracted out and my client won't have to write out all kinds of checks other magicians. Not to mention, you are going to want the IRS to approve of those magicians as independent contractors because if they don't, because you didn't go to a lawyer, the IRS will be coming after your rear end for back taxes on payroll taxes plus interest and penalties. That adds up quick and you'll pay every dime of it and the IRS has been known to be relentless about getting their money along with interest and penalties on top of it. If you don't take the legal side of the house of your business seriously and the liability aspects and law seriously, you could quickly find yourself regretting that you didn't take it seriously initially. They will sit you in that defendant's chair and take everything you sweated and worked hard for with the swipe of pen and their is nothing you can do about it. On top of keeping legal separation of your business, LLCs are great for liability protection against personal lawsuits unrelated to your business, that way they can't take your business assets in some cases. That doesn't happen in a corporation or sole proprietorship though.
"Never fear shadows. They simply mean there is a light shining somewhere nearby." -unknown
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