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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Pretty hard to be be tenacious about anything after you've been given a lethal injection.
Here are the stories of some people who were executed though innocent or probably innocent: http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/executed-possibly-innocent BTW- No matter how tenacious you are, you don't go about "having" the decision reversed. That has to be granted. And guess who you'll need to do the legal work for you? That's right, some dirtbag defense lawyer. But I'm sure that someone who disapproves of them would forego their assistance as a matter of honor. |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Quote:
On Aug 26, 2014, landmark wrote: Yes; I should have said that it exists not merely for the protection of the defendant.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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slowkneenuh Regular user After 5,278+ posts, only credited with 133 Posts |
First off, I never used the term dirtbag defense lawyer, and I am certain the majority of them are hard working and honest. That doesn't make up for the system which I feel is broken and for the bad apples that spoil the barrel. As for myself, I would hire a fool for my lawyer, myself. Finally, not only are the number of wrongly convicted individuals small, the actual death sentences are far less to be almost non-existent.
John
"A poor workman always blames his tools" |
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slowkneenuh Regular user After 5,278+ posts, only credited with 133 Posts |
Just off the press near my home:
A judge has approved the suppression of some major evidence in the murder trial against Aaron Hernandez, court documents show. The former star Patriots tight end had filed a motion to suppress evidence that was obtained while his home was searched last June after the murder of Odin Lloyd. Hernandez's defense team asked a judge to toss an iPhone, a Blackberry, an iPad and two iPad minis, which it claims was not a part of the original search warrant. The defense says that a Massachusetts State Police trooper did not have the proper paperwork upon entering Hernandez's home. Tuesday, Bristol County Superior Court allowed that evidence to be thrown out. Earlier this month, the court denied Hernandez's motion to dismiss a digital video recorder, a hard drive and other cell phones. Hernandez is charged with the first-degree murder of Lloyd in 2013. Additionally, he is charged with the murders of Daniel de Abreu and Safiro Furtado in Boston in 2012.
John
"A poor workman always blames his tools" |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
As the state trooper undoubtedly knew, search warrants are limited in scope.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Quote:
On Aug 26, 2014, slowkneenuh wrote: Sorry about that. It was Lunatik who calls defense lawyers dirtbags. Other than that, though, he seems to agree with you. Actual death sentences almost non-existent? Read the Innocence Project link I posted. |
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slowkneenuh Regular user After 5,278+ posts, only credited with 133 Posts |
I should have mentioned the article is about an NFL football player (since dismissed) on the New England Patriots team residing in Massachusetts.
John
"A poor workman always blames his tools" |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
The fact that evidence was seized that was not within the scope of the warrant in the Hernandez case is hardly breaking news.
What is it about the Fourth Amendment that people seem to have difficulty understanding? I'm sure if "they" tried to confiscate your guns you'd claim that your 2nd Amendment rights were being violated. So the 2nd is engraved in store, but the 4th isn't? As you noted though, OTHER evidence has been admitted. Pre-trial suppression hearings are routine. Some stuff gets in, some stuff doesn't. None of this is exactly worthy of "Just off the presses!" like it's big news. |
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slowkneenuh Regular user After 5,278+ posts, only credited with 133 Posts |
Considering the judge just ruled in favor of the defendant today is breaking news in my judgment. Believe it or not I do not own a gun nor am I supportive of the 2nd Amendment. I am for tight gun control and against any weapon of high caliber or automatics outside of law enforcement control.
John
"A poor workman always blames his tools" |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Actually, it would be breaking news if the judge had let the evidence in. If it was illegally obtained, admitting it would be reversible error.
Just curious- are there any other amendments that you don't support? |
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acesover Special user I believe I have 821 Posts |
Quote:
On Aug 26, 2014, mastermindreader wrote: My bad. I know it is not a legal term. But it gets the point across. It just conveys that there is no doubt. That is the vein in which I am using it. I understand that legally it means nothing.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21245 Posts |
Quote:
On Aug 26, 2014, slowkneenuh wrote: How well would you sleep if YOU were that innocent person? Or your wife daughter or mother? I bet an apology from someone sleeping well would not help much huh? Ever been in maximum security? For innocent people it is not living. It is far worse than movies make it seem. Your apology is meaninglessness.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21245 Posts |
Quote:
On Aug 26, 2014, slowkneenuh wrote: Spoken like someone who has never spent a minute in a maximum security gen pop wing. What does the relative number of anything mean? With hundreds of thousands of inmates just .5% is a staggering number of INNOCENT PEOPLE IN JAIL. But it is OK because you will take your wrongful conviction like a man. I bet you will get out a higher caliber person once it is all said and done. Spend a night there then get back to me about how you would be OK with it.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Soowkneeuh raises a good point, though. The fact of the matter is that we as a society are willing to tolerate a certain number of innocent people in prison, because it's a reality inherent in the system, even if it's not an intended result. The only way to reliably keep all innocent people out of prison is to stop putting people in prison altogether.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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acesover Special user I believe I have 821 Posts |
All of this brings back my question of evidence being inadmissible because of being obtained illegally and a guilty person goes free. When said evidence is proof positive I wish there would be something, I have no idea what, that could be done so that a murderer or rapist could not go free. I am not bashing the system because it is all we have to work with and I truly believe it is as good as it gets, and is the best in existence. But it is not perfect nor can it ever be perfect..
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
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slowkneenuh Regular user After 5,278+ posts, only credited with 133 Posts |
Bob, now that you mention it, I have had issues with both the 1st and the 8th amendments.
Danny give me a break. I don't want an innocent person convicted. But unless someone can tell me with proof that 100 guilty people are set free (or some such number which shows the great disparity of the guilty gone free vs. the innocents convicted, then yes I want to err on the side of getting all of the guilty convicted.
John
"A poor workman always blames his tools" |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
And tell the families of those wrongfully executed not to worry about it because their number is infinitesimal. The fact is, though, that around 4% of those on death row are likely innocent.
Quote:
University of Michigan law professor, Samuel Gross led a team of experts in the law and in statistics that estimated the likely number unjust convictions. The study determined that at least 4% of people on death row were and are innocent. The research was peer reviewed and the prestigious Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences published it, Gross has no doubt some innocent people have been executed. [12][13]... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrongful_execution |
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slowkneenuh Regular user After 5,278+ posts, only credited with 133 Posts |
I can't agree our system is the best.
"The incarceration rate in the United States of America is the highest in the world. As of October 2013, the incarceration rate was 716 per 100,000 of the national population. While the United States represents about 5 percent of the world's population, it houses around 25 percent of the world's prisoners."
John
"A poor workman always blames his tools" |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Quote:
On Aug 26, 2014, LobowolfXXX wrote: The problem comes when you try to apply that logic to capital cases. |
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slowkneenuh Regular user After 5,278+ posts, only credited with 133 Posts |
As of October 1, 2013, there were 3,088 death row inmates in the United States. That means 124 are possibly innocent. Measure that against how many actual criminals escape conviction because of our judicial "safeguards" and then commit additional heinous crimes. Explain that to the victims whose sufferings could have been avoided.
John
"A poor workman always blames his tools" |
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