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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Guns don't kill people... (35 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Aug 30, 2014, TonyB2009 wrote:
Quote:
On Aug 30, 2014, Dannydoyle wrote:
Quote:
On Aug 30, 2014, TonyB2009 wrote:
Quote:
On Aug 30, 2014, Dannydoyle wrote:
Drugs are inherently dangerous.

No, they are not. Some cultures use drugs as part of their religious rites, and they are not associated with anti-social behaviour. Alcohol in moderation can be good for you, it is only when it is overused or abused that it slips into danger territory. It is not inherently dangerous. Same with marijuana, caffine, or any of a number of other commonly used drugs.

If you had said crack cocaine was inherently dangerous, I would not dispute that. But not all drugs are.

And like other assertions on this thread, from myself and from others, I am not going to back it up with extraneous studies. Dig them out yourself.


Now you are going to play that stupid game? According to this logic guns are not Inherantly dangerous either and you have countered your whole point. This is the problem with pseudo intellectual process in action. They are not dangerous until someone loads and aims and fires or does something to cause an unintentional discharge. Thanks for proving my point.

And when you make an assertion it is up to YOU to back it up Tony not anyone to do the research. You are the one making the BS claim that somehow miraculously crime will drop by 50%. Cool back it up or it is just hot air. Heck I can drop the crime rate by 100%. Just abolish all laws. Easy as can be. If the drop in crime comes only from people not being prosecuted for that crime any more it is insignificant. Except of course to those not being prosecuted.

I have not countered any of my point. Guns ARE inherently dangerous. Not so with drugs. Some are and some aren't.

And if you dispute my point that gun deaths would be halved in Ireland by legalizing pot, then produce some proofs yourself.


Are your books this well researched?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
R.S.
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CT one day I'll have
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On Aug 30, 2014, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On Aug 30, 2014, R.S. wrote:
Since this was brought up earlier, here's some interesting stats on Christianity and the murder rate...

http://www.cybercollege.com/fog33.htm

"As reported in the Journal of Religion and Society, in 2005, when the top 18 "prosperous democracies" are compared, a reverse relationship becomes evident between "quantifiable societal health" and "religious fervency."

In other words, the more religious a society is the more social problems that society has.

By social problems they are talking about suicide, teen pregnancy, abortion, sexually transmitted disease, homicides, divorce, and child mortality."


and...

http://secularist10.hubpages.com/hub/Rel......nd-Crime


Ron


Can I get a vegan pie with some of the leftover cherries?


Are you denying there does seem to be a correlation between Christianity/religiosity and murder/violent crime rates on the state/international level?

http://visual.ly/religion-and-crime-there-correlation

Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
rockwall
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On Aug 30, 2014, balducci wrote:
Fine, then let me ask a new question set.

Would you support the teaching of Christianity if teaching Christianity reduced violence?

Would you do so if the teachers were all atheists who instructed the kids that Christianity was a bunch of fables and myths?

Of course you needn't answer, I was just curious.


No and since the answer to the first is No, the answer to the 2nd would be non-applicable. So, does that make me a hypocrite?

(I assume we are talking about public schools.)
balducci
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I've no idea if it makes you a hypocrite or not. That was never why I asked.

Now no one asked me, but let me say I would / do support the teaching of Christianity (and some other major religions) in public schools (probably as part of one course in high school). So long as the religions are taught in an academic sense, by people interested in educating and not in preaching, and not for the sake of converting / selling any particular religion to the kids. Why? Well, religious themes appear in many works of art and literature and I think any educated person should be exposed to at least some of the basics.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
mastermindreader
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Quote:
On Aug 30, 2014, LobowolfXXX wrote:
There are people out there with the good faith belief that federal government bureaucracy isn't the route to good schools.


Good faith? Maybe sombunall...

http://www.examiner.com/article/the-repu......d-unions

http://aattp.org/kansas-gop-legislature-......ucation/

http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews/art......ducation

http://www.isthmus.com/isthmus/article.php?article=41942

http://www.politicususa.com/2014/03/09/r......ons.html

And remember this one? The Republican platform plank in Texas to ban the teaching of critical thinking skills:

http://truth-out.org/news/item/10144-tex......-schools
LobowolfXXX
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It's certainly not a given that spending more money creates better schools.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
TonyB2009
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Quote:
On Aug 30, 2014, LobowolfXXX wrote:
You have "proof" that gun deaths would be halved by legalizing pot?

This is not hard science so I don't have hard proof. In these matters you never do. I have an opinion based on plenty of research. Half the murders in Ireland are gang related. In Limerick, the worst affected area, for a number of years it was three quarters. The main business of the gangs is selling drugs, and the main drugs are the soft ones.

Legalise the soft drugs and the gangs lose a lot of their potential earning power. They could switch to heroin or crack cocaine (some of which they already do) but the market is a lot smaller. They could switch to prostitution but again the market is smaller.

The only way of proving me right or wrong is to try the experiment. If it is done quickly the gangs may lose their power. If we delay, they become entrenched and begin branching out, consolidating their power. This is what happened during prohibition in America. Gangs began importing alcohol, then became more highly organised and branched out. When prohibition was removed, the gangs were too powerful. We may have reached that point in Ireland.

In Holland, where pot is legal and so is prostitution, the gun death rate is significantly lower than in Ireland. The odds are good that I am right. My opinion is based on research and local knowledge, but there is no proof until it is tried.
Dannydoyle
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You have no grasp of how "organized crime" was run during American prohibition. That is obvious.

Also people are criminals because they are. If you take away the income from the drugs, they move to kidnapping. They will move to other drugs. Do you REALLY think that criminals will just go get regular jobs? Are you serious?

Of course you have no proof. Of course it is just an opinion. Thank you for pointing that out.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
acesover
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On Aug 29, 2014, acesover wrote:
Is there something someone can post to get this thread deleted? Smile It is the same rhetoric on guns over and over again.

Lets see now:

All guns are bad. No they aren't. Yes they are.

It is the individual not the gun. It is the gun. If we banned all guns everything would be fine. No it wouldn't. Yes it would.

America has a terrible gun culture and all the other countries are better. You are wrong. No I am not. there was a poll that said guns are bad. Well I have one that says guns are good. Yours is biased mine isn't.

Joe Blow says guns are bad. Well I say that, Joe Blow is a left wing liberal.

John Smith says guns are good and necessary. Well I say that, John Smith is a right wing conservative redneck.

People should not be allowed to buy the kind of guns I do not like because I say so. I think those black ones are bad and are made for killing and not for anything else. But there are thousands and thousands of them that never killed anyone. Yea well just wait. And on and on.

Oh yeah. Well what about abortion? WHAT?

Does this sound familiar?


WOW!

How did I miss the following my post?


Education, racism, schools, education , drugs, gun rights , gun control, how children are raised, closing inner city schools, boxing, name calling, how old you should be before you can fire a fully auto weapon, teaching of Christianity, how to drop the crime rate. I am sure I missed a bunch. However I believe more are coming. But I have to ask. Where is Jim Crow in all of this? Smile


If someread read only the last 3 or 4 pages of posts they would have no idea what this topic is about.
Smile
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
LobowolfXXX
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I had to backtrack, myself; I thought this was an Indian food thread.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
rockwall
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Hey, if it didn't get shut down after tomsk192's tirage, it's got to be pretty safe.
stoneunhinged
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On Aug 30, 2014, LobowolfXXX wrote:
I had to backtrack, myself; I thought this was an Indian food thread.


And I was looking for the inside story of Lewis Keseberg. But then again, maybe it is.
tommy
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Religion or Philosophy, what's the difference Jeff?

What are your thoughts on a nine year girl with an Uzi, considered as an uphill bicycle race?

Do we need a new way of thinking about this crisis? How about, handing control of all guns to the expert steering committee at the United Nations?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
slowkneenuh
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Other than both ending in a tragic death, the only other common trait is stupidity.

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/nation......371.html
John

"A poor workman always blames his tools"
balducci
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On Aug 31, 2014, slowkneenuh wrote:
Other than both ending in a tragic death, the only other common trait is stupidity.

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/nation......371.html

The stupidity is more apparent in this reporting:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-......end.html
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
slowkneenuh
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I'm not sure whether a cure for cancer or a pill to prevent stupidity would save more lives.
John

"A poor workman always blames his tools"
Dannydoyle
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Without the freedom to be stupid no innovation would take place. Where is free will if we are not allowed to be stupid? Does everything need a pill or a regulation? People do stupid things and it's easy to Monday morning quarterback it. Look at some of the early alchemy. Stupid? Perhaps but what came from it.?

Don't underestimate stupidity as a creative conduit.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
mastermindreader
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I think what you're referring to, Danny, is ignorance rather than stupidity. Alchemy and astrology were the foundations of modern chemistry and astronomy. Its practitioners weren't stupid, though. They were, in many cases, highly educated men. They were ignorant, however, of atomic theory, modern physics, etc. Ignorance can indeed lead to knowledge. Stupidity not so much.
TonyB2009
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On Aug 30, 2014, Dannydoyle wrote:
You have no grasp of how "organized crime" was run during American prohibition. That is obvious.

Also people are criminals because they are. If you take away the income from the drugs, they move to kidnapping. They will move to other drugs. Do you REALLY think that criminals will just go get regular jobs? Are you serious?

Of course you have no proof. Of course it is just an opinion. Thank you for pointing that out.

Danny, you are great at blowing hot air. I know quite a bit about the history of organised crime in the USA, and a huge amount about the history of organised crime in Ireland. And criminals are not criminals because they are - that is just right-wing knee-jerk bigotry. Social conditions create criminals. Changing the social conditions - and that includes legislation on prostitution and soft drugs - changes the number of criminals in a society.

If you can't see that, I am not going to do the work for you. But no amount of bluster on your part changes it.
LobowolfXXX
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There's a mixture of nature and nurture in most walks of life. Predominantly nature, though.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
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