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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Guns don't kill people... (35 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Kabbalah
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Steelers are 2.5 underdog. I certainly hope they win it...that's where my money is.

Interesting thing about an ex Raven player...

Knives don't kill people.
"Long may magicians fascinate and continue to be fascinated by the mystery potential in a pack of cards."
~Cliff Green

"The greatest tricks ever performed are not done at all. The audience simply think they see them."
~ John Northern Hilliard
mastermindreader
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But a fist can knock them out.

I think the Ravens may be a bit distracted tonight.
slowkneenuh
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For those folks who think arming teachers in the schools is a good idea.

From NBC News website:

Teacher Accidentally Shoots Self in Leg at School

A Utah elementary school teacher who was carrying a concealed firearm at school accidentally shot herself in the leg when the weapon discharged in a faculty bathroom shortly before classes started Thursday morning, officials said. Granite School District spokesman Ben Horsley said the teacher at Westbrook Elementary School, in the Salt Lake City suburb of Taylorsville, was severely injured when the bullet entered and exited her leg, and she was rushed to a hospital. She was in good condition and alert at the hospital by midmorning, Horsley said.

No other faculty or students witnessed the shooting, but they might have heard the gunshot or seen the teacher as she was taken out of the school to the hospital, he said. Classes were continuing as usual, and crisis counselors were available, Horsley said. Officials were still investigating how the gun discharged. "This just appears at this point in time to be an accident," he said.

He wouldn't release details about the woman or what she taught, but he noted she was carrying the weapon legally with a concealed firearm permit. Utah is among the few states that allow people with concealed weapons permits to carry guns in public schools, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures. Teachers are not required to disclose they're carrying a weapon, and administrators are prohibited from asking.
John

"A poor workman always blames his tools"
LobowolfXXX
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I guess it would be too easy to post a Sandy Hook article and address it to people who think having unarmed teachers is a good idea, so...

http://snafu-solomon.blogspot.com/2012/1......ops.html
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
slowkneenuh
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One instance, 17 years ago?
John

"A poor workman always blames his tools"
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Sep 11, 2014, slowkneenuh wrote:
One instance, 17 years ago?



Seriously THAT is what you are going with?
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
mastermindreader
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Really, I'd be interested in hearing about any other instances where an armed teacher stopped a school shooting.

I like how the article proclaims "Historical Proof!" (with an exclamation point, no less) based on that the single instance they were able to find. You'd think there'd be dozens, at least before you could claim any type of meaningful "proof."

The title though, made me think the article was going to be satire. Nothing like those "Soldier of Fortune" guys for some good fun.
rockwall
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Well, since traditionally, we haven't armed teachers, it's gonna be a little hard to find lots of examples.

How about potential mass shootings in general? Would that help?

http://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanhatesthis/10......#15zr5ix
LobowolfXXX
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Something is wrong with my iPad. On my screen, the post I was responding to only cited one story, too.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Dannydoyle
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When you figure in the number of teachers armed the percentage of success might be fairly high. I am not saying do it I am just saying that the idea of small numbers does not stop people from whining about anything. If it pushes an agenda that is all that matters.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
mastermindreader
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Whose agenda? The rights agenda appears to be to convince everyone to carry concealed weapons, or to openly carry them. Where are all those stories of shopping center or movie theater shootings being stopped by armed civilians. How about the armed civilians who didn't stop the guy who shot Congresswoman Gifford? (It was an unarmed older women who stopped the guy when he paused to reload.

Surely these folks must be stopping massacres all over the place. So how come there's only one incident reported in 17 years?
LobowolfXXX
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One reason is that the mainstream media are generally anti-gun. Another is that when such intervention is successful, it results in non-massacres, making them both less newsworthy and susceptible to manipulation by journalists who want to minimize the effectiveness of armed intervenors. See, for instance, the first link where "Mother Jones" defines "mass killing" as one that results in 4 deaths, then asserts that an armed civilian has never stopped one - in part, because he doesn't have to count the Villagomez case (second link) where the armed civilian stopped the attack after 3 people were murdered. So we get the paradoxical reported lack of success specifically because of the success.

In general, what stops a bad guy with a gun intent on killing lots of people is he presence of a good guy with a gun (and by "guy," I'm not being gender-specific). You may cite counter-examples, like the Giffords case, but they're the exception. The longer it takes for the good guy with a gun, the more people die.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/it-t......808.html

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2021752/posts
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
mastermindreader
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It seems to me that the Giffords case, which happened in Arizona where I understand many folks are packing (and there were certainly more than a few at the scene), illustrates that the "good guys with guns" are like most anyone else and just choose not to get involved unless they are directly threatened and have no choice. I can't even imagine any of the teachers I had pulling out a gun and firing at an armed assailant- especially one shooting a rapid fire semi-automatic military style weapon. And, even if they did, they'd probably shoot themselves in the foot, miss completely, or hit an innocent kid caught in the crossfire.

Gunfighting, to my knowledge, is not on the curriculum in teachers' colleges.
rockwall
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Quote:
On Sep 11, 2014, mastermindreader wrote:
...

Gunfighting, to my knowledge, is not on the curriculum in teachers' colleges.


Neither is it on any of the curriculum that most mass murderers have taken. (Unless you want to site playing video games.) But that doesn't seem to have stopped them.

Anyway, I'm not sure if ANYONE has espoused arming teachers without giving them any training.
Dannydoyle
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Bob nobody wants to "convince" anyone to carry. Simply "allow" them to carry is quite enough.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
landmark
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Can't wait to see the spin the first time a teacher accidentally shoots a student.

There are people who specialize in security if you feel the need. Let them do their jobs.
Dannydoyle
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We don't have security guards teach history. Just pointing out.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
acesover
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Quote:
On Sep 11, 2014, mastermindreader wrote:
Really, I'd be interested in hearing about any other instances where an armed teacher stopped a school shooting.

I like how the article proclaims "Historical Proof!" (with an exclamation point, no less) based on that the single instance they were able to find. You'd think there'd be dozens, at least before you could claim any type of meaningful "proof."

The title though, made me think the article was going to be satire. Nothing like those "Soldier of Fortune" guys for some good fun.


Well not looking it up but a doctor stopped a shooter in a hospital by using his firearm. Did not her much about that because the nut case shooter was stopped. But of course not a good news story and besides a concealed carry weapon was used to protect countless victims.

However had the shooter been successful and killed a whole bunch of hospital personnel and patients can you imagine the headlines? Mot to mention the anti gun people along with the president saying this has to stop. Don't hear anyone saying, "arm law abiding citizens to further prevent criminals from committing acts of violence against the unarmed".
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
slowkneenuh
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If we allow people to carry, there should be a criminal charge for stupidity! Shouldn't be difficult in these two cases.

September 09. 2014 8:18PM

MANCHESTER, NH — A 68-year-old passenger will not face criminal charges after airport screeners confiscated a gun from his carry-on luggage at the Manchester-Boston Regional Airport on Tuesday, the second such incident in 12 days, authorities said.

The New Hampshire man “didn’t break any (state) laws because there were no bullets with” the 9mm Beretta, Londonderry police Lt. Kevin Cavallaro said. The man also had a conceal carry permit.

The man had the firearm returned but didn’t travel with it, authorities said.Anyone caught bringing firearms to security checkpoints is referred to law enforcement and subject to criminal penalties. The Transportation Security Administration, which is responsible for airport security checkpoints, can impose a civil fine ranging from $1,500 up to $11,000 for firearms brought to a security checkpoint.

On Aug. 28, screeners recovered a loaded .38 caliber Sig Sauer in the carry-on luggage of a 57-year-old man who was flying from Manchester to Baltimore.

There was no information available Tuesday on whether that man faces charges.
John

"A poor workman always blames his tools"
landmark
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Quote:
On Sep 12, 2014, Dannydoyle wrote:
We don't have security guards teach history. Just pointing out.

Hope you're not trying to suppress the First Amendment rights of security guards.
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