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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Guns don't kill people... (35 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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tomsk192
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On Aug 28, 2014, LobowolfXXX wrote:
I don't just watch the Telly; I Google, too! Plus, my grandmother was straight out of Nottingham.

I do intend to make use of the word "numpties," which is a new one on me.


Numpty is a great word, and numpties is better by at least one Smile
magicfish
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On Aug 27, 2014, tomsk192 wrote:
Quote:
On Aug 28, 2014, magicfish wrote:
Britain executed their King because he wouldn't listen to parliament. It became a republic before the U.S. did.
It is illegal for the Queen to interfere with affairs of state.


Ah, but it isn't illegal, actually. There are many ways in which the Queen could meddle, if she so chose. The threat of being booted out, albeit without actual decapitation, seems to be what holds our silly form of government intact. Charles I lost his head over constitutional matters, and Charles II was admitted back under the terms of what became a shifting, malleable quasi-constitution. The upshot of this chaotic outcome is that the sacred cows are few and far between, in terms of what we can sensibly amend without public uproar. The downside is the lack of limits to what we can legally amend in the face of public pressure.

That's politics, baby.

Don't forget Charles II's document sent to parliament stating that upon his return no parliamentarians would be arrested.
And I disagree it is a silly form of government. I believe some of the finest nations on earth are constitutional monarchies.
Sweden, Canada, Denmark, Australia, Great Britain, and many more.
tomsk192
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Yes, that sticks in my craw. Although in effect, they are arrested these days. Anyway, that c***, Charles II, went back on his word, hauled a load of people in [dad killers] and slotted 'em. Very human, but rather unsportsmanlike?

But please don't equate silly with bad. Silliness is good. Wouldn't it be silly to restrict gun ownership?
magicfish
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Well, he didn't exactly go back on his word. He allowed prominent parliamentarians who fought against his father in civil war to prosper and do business freely. Granted he stripped many of them of their positions at Oxford and Cambridge.
He avenged his fathers "murder" however.
He exhumed Cromwell's body and decapitated it. He put his head on a pike and displayed it as a traitor at city centre.
Interestingly, the brand new scientific Royal Society which received the King's blessing, was formed by both Civil War Parliamentarians and Staunch Royalists.
And they had one rule at their meetings...no religion or politics.
tomsk192
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Charles II did away with many that he had previously let off the hook. But I daresay that he would have had the intelligence to avoid giving a fully wound crossbow to a child.
magicfish
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Agreed.
acesover
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On Aug 27, 2014, NYCTwister wrote:
I have only a laymans knowledge of guns so correct me if I'm wrong. My first thought was, what kind of expert thinks that a nine year old girl can handle the recoil of such a powerful weapon? It's my understanding that full grown men have to exert considerable effort to control such guns.

I think people should have the right to own a gun, but where in this situation was simple common sense applied?

I didn't watch the video btw. I've have enough horrific images burn onto my brain thanks to the internet.


While a 9mm uzi is not that powerful of a weapon with not that much recoil as can be seen by her firing a single shot. On full auto it can very well overwhelm a 9 year old with surprise and they can lose control, which the instructor should have been aware. That is more than likely what happened rather than it being described as such a powerful weapon.

I definitely have prayers for all victims here, because if one believes that the instructor is the only victim I believe you are mistaken. Of course the instructor is dead, but no telling how this will affect the little girl and her parents who I feel are victims also. Please remember this was a tragic accident.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
tomsk192
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The nine year old girl is a victim. The parents who took her to fire automatic guns? No. They aren't victims, they are perpetrators. If the argument is stupidity, then this is at the level of a moderate to severe learning difficulty, in which case I would question the U.S. governmental oversight of LD services. If a mentally challenged couple have children, then where is the state? No, wait, it was perfectly legal for her to fire off an Uzi at a range in the State of Arizona. And presumably the instructor didn't have a learning difficulty either, yes? Otherwise, he wouldn't have had such a responsible job.


If I put my nine year old in charge of an artificially powered lawnmower, I would be the idiot, the ethically culpable party, when their hand or foot got shredded. Sympathy? Well, a lawn mower is designed for mowing grass, so there might be a bit of sympathy. An Uzi is designed for killing lots of things indiscriminately, very quickly, so no sympathy there. So as long as lawnmowers are legal for kids, and swimming pools, let's keep guns out there. Why the heck not? Not sure why Americans need them, to be honest, particularly machine guns, but whatever. Live and let bleed out, is my motto.
Dannydoyle
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On Aug 27, 2014, tomsk192 wrote:
The nine year old girl is a victim. The parents who took her to fire automatic guns? No. They aren't victims, they are perpetrators.


You may not believe this but I am in 100% agreement here. It all falls on them no matter which side of this debate you are on.

We may have different conclusions about the inanimate objects, but where culpability lies seems clear.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
tomsk192
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I do believe it, Danny, and I am not as gun averse as may seem obvious.
acesover
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I did not want to go here but your posts have forced me to do so. The instructor was negligent. Over and done with. It could have just as easily have been one of the parents killed or the little girl herself. I am done with the discussion. I can only say he was definitely not a qualified instructor. If he was and he was trained, he definitely did not use the skills he had learned. End of story. You can bait me lday here but I am done with this discussion.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
mastermindreader
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I agree as well. The parents need their heads examined, but I also place blame on the shooting range for allowing a nine-year old to fire a fully-automatic Uzi pistol.
tomsk192
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On Aug 28, 2014, acesover wrote:
I did not want to go here but your posts have forced me to do so. The instructor was negligent. Over and done with. It could have just as easily have been one of the parents killed or the little girl herself. I am done with the discussion. I can only say he was definitely not a qualified instructor. If he was and he was trained, he definitely did not use the skills he had learned. End of story. You can bait me lday here but I am done with this discussion.


Truly, I do not wish to bait you at all. I am only asking these unpleasant questions because I genuinely wish to engage in the debate, because I think it matters.

I make lots of jokes about the USA, but in fact my own brother was born there and I cherish real love for your country, your people and certain threads of your history, not least your successful war for independence from the malevolent parasite that was England in those days.

In brief, because you all know my views on the matter, I think the gun situation in America is ludicrous. It does seem childish to everybody else in the world because it is childish. That is a bitter pill to swallow.
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Tomski- I'm afraid you're right.
tomsk192
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I respect you for saying that, Bob, as I know that you have a nuanced and respectable view on the subject, which makes my own position look slightly gauche.
mastermindreader
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Not at all gauche. I think you nailed it pretty well.
tomsk192
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Thank you sincerely, Bob, but I will never have the insight of a North American into this situation. It makes no moral or ethical difference, but it is important in thinking about realistic pathways. I will keep bleating until I can't bleat anymore: it is all that somebody in my position can realistically do.
LobowolfXXX
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On Aug 28, 2014, tomsk192 wrote:
I respect you for saying that, Bob, as I know that you have a nuanced and respectable view on the subject, which makes my own position look slightly gauche.


What's your position?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
tomsk192
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Like a firm but benevolent Nanny.
LobowolfXXX
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Well, ok, but how about more specifically?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
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