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LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On Aug 30, 2014, mastermindreader wrote:
I think we've got a whole new topic here.

I don't know that teaching Christianity in public schools would reduce violence. (A lot of "smiting" goes on in the Book.)


The question is, would you support it if you did know that it would? And if not, would that make you a hypocrite?


Quote:
Nor do I agree that affirmative action was racist (when it was in effect to redress a very real problem that has since been somewhat alleviated)

I'm talking about in the 21st century where some people support admitting (and denying admission to) certain students that would not have been admitted (or denied admission) but for their race.

Quote:
or that private schools are preferable to public education. But I do believe that taking away resources for public schools and diverting them to private schools is a very good idea. What good are tax credits if you're living below the poverty line and can afford a private school? Some have proposed vouchers, but since public education has been shown, overall, to be superior that that offered by charter schools, why would you want to privatize it?


I spent about half of my childhood educational years in a public school, and half in a private school that was much better. I was raised by a single parent who could just barely afford to send me to the private school. If I'd had siblings, or she earned a little less, it wouldn't have been an option, but even in those cases, it might have been had her tax burden (including the burden of paying for an inferior public school she wasn't using) had been reduced.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
mastermindreader
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I heard on the news this morning that the shooting range, where the Uzi was fired with fatal results by a nine-year old, has re-opened for business with NO changes in it's rules regarding age requirements, etc. Apparently, if you're at least eight years old, you're eligible to fire their automatic weapons.
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On Aug 30, 2014, mastermindreader wrote:
I heard on the news this morning that the shooting range, where the Uzi was fired with fatal results by a nine-year old, has re-opened for business with NO changes in it's rules regarding age requirements, etc. Apparently, if you're at least eight years old, you're eligible to fire their automatic weapons.


You'd think they'd have at least bumped it up to 10! It will be interesting to see if any lawsuits are filed, and if so, whether the business survives.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
rockwall
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Quote:
On Aug 30, 2014, mastermindreader wrote:
I think we've got a whole new topic here.

I don't know that teaching Christianity in public schools would reduce violence. (A lot of "smiting" goes on in the Book.)

...


Does being an ex-lawyer make someone particularly adept at dodging questions I wonder?

The statement WASN'T that teaching Christianity in public schools would reduce violence, it was, "IF it did, would you support it?"
balducci
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This is the place?

http://bulletsandburgers.com

Maybe they'll honor the dead instructor with a named burger?

And, wow, it is the #1 attraction in Las Vegas according to tripadvisor

http://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Re......ada.html
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
balducci
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Quote:
On Aug 30, 2014, rockwall wrote:

The statement WASN'T that teaching Christianity in public schools would reduce violence, it was, "IF it did, would you support it?"

The devil is in the details, isn't it.

Would YOU support the teaching of Christianity in the situation described?

Would you still do so if the teachers were all atheists who instructed the kids that Christianity was a bunch of fables and myths?
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
mastermindreader
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Quote:
On Aug 30, 2014, rockwall wrote:
Quote:
On Aug 30, 2014, mastermindreader wrote:
I think we've got a whole new topic here.

I don't know that teaching Christianity in public schools would reduce violence. (A lot of "smiting" goes on in the Book.)

...


Does being an ex-lawyer make someone particularly adept at dodging questions I wonder?

The statement WASN'T that teaching Christianity in public schools would reduce violence, it was, "IF it did, would you support it?"


No, it wouldn't and I wouldn't. Clear enough- or would you like to take another gratuitous potshot?

Here's one for you- IF it were shown that teaching Judaism in public schools would reduce violence by FIFTY percent, would you support it?
mastermindreader
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Quote:
On Aug 30, 2014, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On Aug 30, 2014, mastermindreader wrote:
I heard on the news this morning that the shooting range, where the Uzi was fired with fatal results by a nine-year old, has re-opened for business with NO changes in it's rules regarding age requirements, etc. Apparently, if you're at least eight years old, you're eligible to fire their automatic weapons.


You'd think they'd have at least bumped it up to 10! It will be interesting to see if any lawsuits are filed, and if so, whether the business survives.


Amazing, isn't it? But, it seems to me that the girl may well have a cause of action (for mental distress and psychic injury) against the range as well as her own parents.
balducci
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Quote:
On Aug 30, 2014, mastermindreader wrote:

Amazing, isn't it? But, it seems to me that the girl may well have a cause of action (for mental distress and psychic injury) against the range as well as her own parents.

Would the instructor's family have any realistic way to sue the girl, her parents, and / or the range for anything? Wrongful death or anything else?
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
mastermindreader
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Possibly against the range for maintaining a dangerous work environment. (Although the instructor's contributory negligence might well make that a wash.)

I really don't see any possible action against the girl or her parents. (Except by the girl herself, but I don't imagine that happening.)
Dannydoyle
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On Aug 30, 2014, TonyB2009 wrote:
Quote:
On Aug 30, 2014, Dannydoyle wrote:
Drugs are inherently dangerous.

No, they are not. Some cultures use drugs as part of their religious rites, and they are not associated with anti-social behaviour. Alcohol in moderation can be good for you, it is only when it is overused or abused that it slips into danger territory. It is not inherently dangerous. Same with marijuana, caffine, or any of a number of other commonly used drugs.

If you had said crack cocaine was inherently dangerous, I would not dispute that. But not all drugs are.

And like other assertions on this thread, from myself and from others, I am not going to back it up with extraneous studies. Dig them out yourself.


Now you are going to play that stupid game? According to this logic guns are not Inherantly dangerous either and you have countered your whole point. This is the problem with pseudo intellectual process in action. They are not dangerous until someone loads and aims and fires or does something to cause an unintentional discharge. Thanks for proving my point.

And when you make an assertion it is up to YOU to back it up Tony not anyone to do the research. You are the one making the BS claim that somehow miraculously crime will drop by 50%. Cool back it up or it is just hot air. Heck I can drop the crime rate by 100%. Just abolish all laws. Easy as can be. If the drop in crime comes only from people not being prosecuted for that crime any more it is insignificant. Except of course to those not being prosecuted.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
LobowolfXXX
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On Aug 30, 2014, mastermindreader wrote:
I wouldn't. Clear enough- or would you like to take another gratuitous potshot?


So at least we can all(?) agree that one can oppose measures that would bring about what one claims would be a desired result without being a hypocrite.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On Aug 30, 2014, balducci wrote:
Quote:
On Aug 30, 2014, mastermindreader wrote:

Amazing, isn't it? But, it seems to me that the girl may well have a cause of action (for mental distress and psychic injury) against the range as well as her own parents.

Would the instructor's family have any realistic way to sue the girl, her parents, and / or the range for anything? Wrongful death or anything else?


Possibly the range; almost certainly not the girl or her family.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On Aug 30, 2014, balducci wrote:
Quote:
On Aug 30, 2014, rockwall wrote:

The statement WASN'T that teaching Christianity in public schools would reduce violence, it was, "IF it did, would you support it?"

The devil is in the details, isn't it.

Would YOU support the teaching of Christianity in the situation described?

Would you still do so if the teachers were all atheists who instructed the kids that Christianity was a bunch of fables and myths?


Sort of outside the scope of the point. The issue isn't that it (or any other particular thing) should be supported; it's that one doesn't have to be a hypocrite to reject an idea that would bring about a claimed desirable result.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
mastermindreader
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Quote:
On Aug 30, 2014, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On Aug 30, 2014, mastermindreader wrote:
I wouldn't. Clear enough- or would you like to take another gratuitous potshot?


So at least we can all(?) agree that one can oppose measures that would bring about what one claims would be a desired result without being a hypocrite.


I never disagreed with that. I disagreed with the notion that you could reject ALL such measures and not be a hypocrite.
R.S.
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Since this was brought up earlier, here's some interesting stats on Christianity and the murder rate...

http://www.cybercollege.com/fog33.htm

"As reported in the Journal of Religion and Society, in 2005, when the top 18 "prosperous democracies" are compared, a reverse relationship becomes evident between "quantifiable societal health" and "religious fervency."

In other words, the more religious a society is the more social problems that society has.

By social problems they are talking about suicide, teen pregnancy, abortion, sexually transmitted disease, homicides, divorce, and child mortality."


and...

http://secularist10.hubpages.com/hub/Rel......nd-Crime


Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
balducci
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Quote:
On Aug 30, 2014, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On Aug 30, 2014, balducci wrote:
Quote:
On Aug 30, 2014, rockwall wrote:

The statement WASN'T that teaching Christianity in public schools would reduce violence, it was, "IF it did, would you support it?"

The devil is in the details, isn't it.

Would YOU support the teaching of Christianity in the situation described?

Would you still do so if the teachers were all atheists who instructed the kids that Christianity was a bunch of fables and myths?


Sort of outside the scope of the point. The issue isn't that it (or any other particular thing) should be supported; it's that one doesn't have to be a hypocrite to reject an idea that would bring about a claimed desirable result.

Different conversation. I was just addressing the simpler question / point as stated by rockwall.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On Aug 30, 2014, mastermindreader wrote:
Quote:
On Aug 30, 2014, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On Aug 30, 2014, mastermindreader wrote:
I wouldn't. Clear enough- or would you like to take another gratuitous potshot?


So at least we can all(?) agree that one can oppose measures that would bring about what one claims would be a desired result without being a hypocrite.


I never disagreed with that. I disagreed with the notion that you could reject ALL such measures and not be a hypocrite.


Then I'll stop arguing the point. But I'll also submit that there's nobody on the planet would would reject all measures that would reduce the murder rate.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On Aug 30, 2014, R.S. wrote:
Since this was brought up earlier, here's some interesting stats on Christianity and the murder rate...

http://www.cybercollege.com/fog33.htm

"As reported in the Journal of Religion and Society, in 2005, when the top 18 "prosperous democracies" are compared, a reverse relationship becomes evident between "quantifiable societal health" and "religious fervency."

In other words, the more religious a society is the more social problems that society has.

By social problems they are talking about suicide, teen pregnancy, abortion, sexually transmitted disease, homicides, divorce, and child mortality."


and...

http://secularist10.hubpages.com/hub/Rel......nd-Crime


Ron


Can I get a vegan pie with some of the leftover cherries?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
mastermindreader
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Quote:
On Aug 30, 2014, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On Aug 30, 2014, mastermindreader wrote:
Quote:
On Aug 30, 2014, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On Aug 30, 2014, mastermindreader wrote:
I wouldn't. Clear enough- or would you like to take another gratuitous potshot?


So at least we can all(?) agree that one can oppose measures that would bring about what one claims would be a desired result without being a hypocrite.


I never disagreed with that. I disagreed with the notion that you could reject ALL such measures and not be a hypocrite.


Then I'll stop arguing the point. But I'll also submit that there's nobody on the planet would would reject all measures that would reduce the murder rate.



I was speaking specifically to the list of things that landmark posted. There are many who do, in fact, reject all of them.
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