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LobowolfXXX
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On Sep 2, 2014, NYCTwister wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 2, 2014, acesover wrote:
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On Sep 2, 2014, NYCTwister wrote:
1. Why does any US citizen need an Uzi?
2. What threat are you anticipating that might require such a weapon?
3. Why should virtually anyone be able to buy such a weapon, or ANY gun, without rigorous background/psychological checks, or any waiting period?

For the record I'm in favor of any US citizen owning guns, for protection and/or hunting or recreation.
What I can't understand is why ANYONE would think there should be no restrictions on people owning and keeping automatic weapons. Children are dying for crissakes. Please don't restort to the nonsense that the majority of those weapons never hurt anyone.

I'll take anyones DIRECT answers. Especially to question number 2.
I doubt I'll get any.


Why does someone purchase a Sports car that can do in excess of 150 miles an hour? Who are they running from or who are they trying to catch? Answer. No one. But they want it and there is no reason they cannot have it if they use it responsibly. Of course what constitutes responsible. Many answers to that question. Just trying to make a point. The point is that just because you feel they should not have it is not sufficient reason for themnot tohave it.

Now one reason for the Uzi or any other full auto weapon is that they are fun to shoot. if you like that sort of fun. If not don't do it. But don't tell others what they can and cannot do.


So, no DIRECT answers. Just as I expected.


Who's arguing that anyone needs an Uzi, or that there shouldn't be background checks or waiting periods? As Aces suggests, why is "need" relevant to the discussion? If that's not direct enough for you, I don't think anyone needs an Uzi. At least, I think it's 99.9999% likely that any given person will need one. And I think there should be (brief) waiting periods and background checks.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
LobowolfXXX
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On Sep 2, 2014, mastermindreader wrote:
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On Sep 2, 2014, tomsk192 wrote:
Oh God. Can't those with more than the requisite brain cells required for basic human functioning, agree not to engage with the abortion/gun fallacy? It's the most pathetic gambit of all.


I know. The analogy just isn't there. But it's often made to distract attention from the actual issue, as in this thread, which is about whether nine-year-olds should be permitted to fire fully automatic weapons.


If abortion doesn't harm anyone but the mother, why do you find it "unpalatable"? And I can tell you firsthand, it was *not* made in this thread as a distraction, so I'd thank you not to put motives in my head.

Edit: Sorry; I seem to recall that I wasn't the only one to bring it up here, so maybe you're talking about someone else. Maybe.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Magnus Eisengrim
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On Sep 2, 2014, acesover wrote:
I know sort of off topic but same question. Should teens in High School be allowed to get day after pills and condoms so they can...well you know, do what they are "not supposed to do", but they want to. Why does not that school teach safe handling of firearms. They want to teach how to do...well you know, teach how to be safe and if not safe just take the day after pill. Guess that works for you. Would you rather your daughter learn how to handle a firearms safely or get day after pills and have sex whenever she wants with whomever she wants?


You are conflating a number of issues.

1. Contraceptives. Birth control currently is and should be a matter of personal choice. It is reasonable to ask whether minors can have access to contraception without parental consent. But it is simply silly to suggest that the state should regulate sexuality.

2. Why wouldn't you want people to learn to operate firearms safely. Perhaps a more symmetrical question would be whether minors should be allowed free and open access to firearms. Or whether they should be restricted in some way.

3. You miss your own point completely in the final sentences. I would like my children to learn to handle firearms safely and to learn the appropriate and inappropriate times to use them. I would like my children to learn to manage their sexuality in physically and psychologically safe, morally responsible and physically safe ways too.

4. I do not believe that we should have sex or firearms in the streets.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
mastermindreader
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For the same reason you do, but I still support a woman's right to choose. Haven't we discussed this before?

Sometimes,though, the right choice for an individual might well be the unpalatable one. Issues such as abortion should be between a woman and her physician and not dictated by others based on their religious views.
LobowolfXXX
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On Sep 2, 2014, mastermindreader wrote:
Yes, John, that is the argument.

It seems your straw man has internet access.


Quote:
But the Supreme Court has nonetheless ruled that it is an individual, not a collective, right.


5-4, at last count. I can't imagine what gun owners are so concerned about.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
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On Sep 2, 2014, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
[

4. I do not believe that we should have sex [s ]or firearms [/s] in the streets.


Well , a wise man once said....

http://youtu.be/KM02WcvlKn0

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On Sep 2, 2014, mastermindreader wrote:
Acesover wrote:

Quote:
Would you rather your daughter learn how to handle a firearms safely or get day after pills and have sex whenever she wants with whomever she wants?


I'll bet you don't even realize how ridiculous that sounds. There is no such either/or choice, the issues aren't related, and sex education is not provided as a license for the licentious.

Like tomski192 said...

Quote:
Can't those with more than the requisite brain cells required for basic human functioning, agree not to engage with the abortion/gun fallacy? It's the most pathetic gambit of all.


Who mentioned anything about abortion? You are right. I do not realize how ridiculous the above sounds to you. Or do you mean how it differs from your opinions...that part I do realize. I agree that abortion and guns are entirely two different topics and I did not bring it up. However I feel the abortion issue is a travesty thrust upon us just for the sake of convenience. As you know about 90% of abortions are performed for convenience and not because of rape or safety of the would be mother. GOING OFF TOPIC.

Yea so without that sex education the kids would be completely lost. You are kidding right?

You are correct there is no either or choice. That is to bad they do not offer a safety course for firearms for kids in high school. If they did don't, you think there would be less accidental shootings by teens? Maybe not because with sex education there sure are not less children being aborted, only mentioning abortion because you brought it up.

By the way nice dodge to the question about how to handle a firearm or have sex by kids.

As you mentioned that the question is not either or. Let me rephrase. Would you not have your children take a safety firearms course if it was offered? With all of the firearms in the U.S. they are surely going to be exposed to them according to many here. So would it not be a good idea to have them know safe firearms handling whether or not they purchase a firearm? Honestly I believe if they learn and handle firearms most will become interested in them as a form of recreation. That is not a bad thing.

With a good firearms course they would realize that firearms are not to be feared but rather handled correctly and that because a weapon is black does not make it the devil's tool.

If a firearms safety course was offered in High School how do you think those who oppose firearms would respond? they should be thrilled. But you can bet that they would complain about it. Because they are not interested in safety they are only interested in banning firearms.
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Dannydoyle
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Women's right to choose to have a baby killed. Lets st least be clear shout what she is choosing. It is not birth control it is abortion.

Just because some liberal law professor says It is not clear means nothing.

Also had anyone here said there should be unrestricted access to firearms?
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I think a woman should have the right to choose. Birth control and safe sex is the first line of prevention against unwanted pregenancy. Not only that, but kids cost ALOT of money and if you are going to have a child, you better have the means to provide for that child and to provide stability for that child. If you don't have the means to have a child and you have a child, I think it's rather selfish. You are not doing any favors for that child by bringing that child into this world and providing an unstable foundation for that child to grow up on. So, I think having a child a very serious commitment of time, love, money and emotional energy and if you don't have enough of all those elements, you have no business bringing a child in this world. So, I think it's important for a woman to have the right to choose.
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Your two posts (see below) appear contradictory to me. On the one hand, you seem now to admit some restrictions on access to firearms are okay (in which case someone has to decide them). On the other hand, earlier you seemed to be saying that there is nothing to discuss.

Quote:
On Sep 2, 2014, Dannydoyle wrote:

Also had anyone here said there should be unrestricted access to firearms?


Quote:
On Sep 2, 2014, Dannydoyle wrote:

The argument is over after we know we are Americans and have a second amendment. Yet people pick at it CONSTANTLY. Why can't the brain cells bragged about accept that? But no keep saying "oh no it REALLY" means this or parse words to try to make it say what you want. Fact is it is clear so why argue at all?
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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One of the reasons why I don't have any children myself is because I simply cannot afford to have any children of my own and I understand money is not everything, but it is important. Plus, my wife and I are getting older and we already have a step son who already works and lives on his own. But we would do our best to help him out if he needed help.
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Dannydoyle
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Again to choose to kill a baby. No euphemism. Call it what it is.

Lots of ways not to be pregnant. Lots of forms of birth control. Abortion is not birth control. It polls better when you ask do you support a woman's right to choose than asking do you support a woman's right to kill her baby.
Danny Doyle
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On Sep 2, 2014, balducci wrote:
Your two posts (see below) appear contradictory to me. On the one hand, you seem now to admit some restrictions on access to firearms are okay (in which case someone has to decide them). On the other hand, earlier you seemed to be saying that there is nothing to discuss.

Quote:
On Sep 2, 2014, Dannydoyle wrote:

Also had anyone here said there should be unrestricted access to firearms?


Quote:
On Sep 2, 2014, Dannydoyle wrote:

The argument is over after we know we are Americans and have a second amendment. Yet people pick at it CONSTANTLY. Why can't the brain cells bragged about accept that? But no keep saying "oh no it REALLY" means this or parse words to try to make it say what you want. Fact is it is clear so why argue at all?


I ASKED who was for unrestricted firearm access?

As a sort of way to point out that no matter how much you guys from other countries cry about it Americans have a second amendment. Somehow people are willing to throw it out the window.
Danny Doyle
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I know what you asked. Reread your own earlier post. You asked "had anyone here said there should be unrestricted access to firearms". As I pointed out, it seems to me that you yourself already said as much implicitly in one of your earlier posts.

If you are now saying that there SHOULD be restrictions, then it seems you are going against what you said before about the 2nd amendment (about it being clear with nothing (like limitations or restrictions on it) to discuss etc.).

Now where you get the idea that "guys from other countries cry about" Americans having a second amendment I do not know, but I find that funny. The truth I think is quite the opposite (really more a case of those guys rolling their eyes or maybe chuckling or sighing than it is of crying).
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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On Sep 2, 2014, General_Magician wrote:
I think a woman should have the right to choose. Birth control and safe sex is the first line of prevention against unwanted pregenancy. Not only that, but kids cost ALOT of money and if you are going to have a child, you better have the means to provide for that child and to provide stability for that child. If you don't have the means to have a child and you have a child, I think it's rather selfish. You are not doing any favors for that child by bringing that child into this world and providing an unstable foundation for that child to grow up on. So, I think having a child a very serious commitment of time, love, money and emotional energy and if you don't have enough of all those elements, you have no business bringing a child in this world. So, I think it's important for a woman to have the right to choose.



Have her buy something that works with batteries. If she does not have sex in the first place she will note get PG. That is the real first line of defense. Or is it all about having fun and sleeping around? Obviously this becomes a moral issue. Some people think it is ok to just do it if it feels good and the heck with the consequences. Have abortion Whee party time. Smile

For the most part to day if a woman gets PG she is a moron. It can happen but not at the rate of abortions we have here in the U.S. It is just done with wreckless abandon.
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You really seem to have an obsession about women and their sex lives. How about letting women decide health issues with their own doctors instead of old male politicians deciding for them?
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Have her buy something that works with batteries. If she does not have sex in the first place she will note get PG. That is the real first line of defense. Or is it all about having fun and sleeping around? Obviously this becomes a moral issue. Some people think it is ok to just do it if it feels good and the heck with the consequences. Have abortion Whee party time. Smile

For the most part to day if a woman gets PG she is a moron. It can happen but not at the rate of abortions we have here in the U.S. It is just done with wreckless abandon.


It's not all about having fun and sleeping around. I think having a commitment to a woman is important. Commitment is very important. Not only that, but, as you know full well, sleeping around and being un-committed does have consquences such as STDs for example. So there is a price to pay for not keeping your commitments. Not just in catching STDs, but also in your own happiness plus facing divorce and a financial hit from the divorce.

Committed relationships are happier and more fulfilling in many cases (so long as those relationships are healthy relationships and not abusive relationships) but committed relationships also require work just like anything worth having requires. That being said, people are going to have sex too, even if they are committed. But in my view, a woman has the right to choose and if she decides to have a child, then the father needs to step up and help to provide for the child as well as be there for the child.
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Dannydoyle
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On Sep 2, 2014, mastermindreader wrote:
You really seem to have an obsession about women and their sex lives. How about letting women decide health issues with their own doctors instead of old male politicians deciding for them?


How about we quit using euphemisms and call it killing a baby and not a woman's health issue?
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On Sep 2, 2014, mastermindreader wrote:
You really seem to have an obsession about women and their sex lives. How about letting women decide health issues with their own doctors instead of you deciding for them?


I have opinions yes. But women do not come to me for advise so it is a non issue how I feel. I really think "obsession" is to strong a word but I guess you are trying to make a point at the risk of over reacting. I am glad women have all sorts of sex lives. It livens things up. But they should use their brain cells that you and others here keep referring too and not get PG and maybe practice a little more morality.

It seems that you feel that a woman can do as she pleases and become PG and have an abortion but someone cannot have certain firearms because...heck I don't even know your because. All this has nothing to do with controlling what a woman does with her body...well not totally true because when she gets PG she kills a baby that is in her body. Which brings us back to the crutch of the issue. Don't get PG in the first place.

I have absolutely nothing against what ever kind of sex women have. What ever pleases them is fine with me. It is the getting PG that I have an issue with and they way they solve it. If they are not smart enough to not get PG they are not old enough to have sex or just plain stupid. As I said it can happen accidently but not at the current rate of abortions here in the U.S. It can not be that many accidents, just an attitude of who gives a darn. Just have an abortion and start over again.

If they don't want children there is definitely measures that can be taken. However when it comes to teens having sex. I really believe that there should be more attention paid to have them abstain rather than offer them day after pills and condoms which conveys the message of condoning what they are doing. You cannot say on one hand here are the reasons to abstain. Oh and here are some condoms and birth control pills. Talk about a mixed message.

Have our morals declined that much that it is so difficult to teach restraint? Do you feel that it impedes their creativity and they will not be a complete person if they cannot have sex as a teen.

Big problem here in the U.S. One word. RESPONSIBITY. One must learn to be responsible for their actions. Of course what do you expect from a society that says stay home and live with your parents and stay under their health care program until you are 27 years old. What the heck? Don't worry about finding a job. Something will drop out of the sky for you. This is the same person who as a teen was given condoms and day after pills to solve their problems. What about responsibility? Who knows you might even win the lottery. Smile Or they might start paying you to play Xbox. Wow talk about going on a rant. Smile
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Magnus Eisengrim
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Stop. Take a breath. Consider the difference between "the moral standards I have for myself" and "the laws that should bind every single citizen, regardless of their personal beliefs".

Breathe deeply.

Think about why the questions are separate. Think about what your country would be like if they weren't.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
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