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Magnus Eisengrim
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On Sep 2, 2014, Dannydoyle wrote:
You have mentioned the morality in saving the planet for example. I admit you never give examples of what needs to be done to do so but you regularly defend people with some fairly extreme views.

So do you want to impose regulations based on your own assumptions of what is happening?


I'll answer to what I THINK you're saying.

Environmental degradation is a public, not a private, issue. If I dump cyanide in the drinking water, this is not a self-directed action. We need laws and public accountability for issues like this. (Just as we need police, courts of law, food inspectors, etc.)

I defend people with all sorts of views, but I do not believe (in general) that there is any justification in making those views binding on others. Private morality and public civic duty are very different things.

I don't understand your final comment, unless you are referring to environmental issues. We have to work with the best available evidence, recognizing that we are always capable of being wrong. I agree with Rockwall's continual stance that the wisest social action is rarely an issue of "right vs. wrong" but is more a matter of estimating the risks, benefits, costs and rewards.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
landmark
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How about we quit using euphemisms and call it killing a baby and not a woman's health issue?

Umm, no, because a fetus is a fetus and a baby is a baby. You're assuming the conclusion, when that's exactly what's being contested.
Dannydoyle
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Ok killing a fetus. Feel better?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Sep 2, 2014, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 2, 2014, Dannydoyle wrote:
You have mentioned the morality in saving the planet for example. I admit you never give examples of what needs to be done to do so but you regularly defend people with some fairly extreme views.

So do you want to impose regulations based on your own assumptions of what is happening?


I'll answer to what I THINK you're saying.

Environmental degradation is a public, not a private, issue. If I dump cyanide in the drinking water, this is not a self-directed action. We need laws and public accountability for issues like this. (Just as we need police, courts of law, food inspectors, etc.)

I defend people with all sorts of views, but I do not believe (in general) that there is any justification in making those views binding on others. Private morality and public civic duty are very different things.

I don't understand your final comment, unless you are referring to environmental issues. We have to work with the best available evidence, recognizing that we are always capable of being wrong. I agree with Rockwall's continual stance that the wisest social action is rarely an issue of "right vs. wrong" but is more a matter of estimating the risks, benefits, costs and rewards.


Environmental issues are quite private as the so called "fix" is to tax my private property.

Risks vs benefits is a good example. Nobody ever states the alleged benefits of the fix proposed. Only hysteria.

An on point the gun issue. Sad to use tragedy to force an agenda and cause hysteria. But every shooting does exactly that. How many people do you think own guns and have no issues ever? What percentage never have a firearm related incident?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
acesover
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Being PG is not an illness. So what is the reason for killing the baby (fetus)? Does it make the would be mother well? I really didn't think she was sick. I thought she was PG. Or is it just for conveience? Please check this out http://www.numberofabortions.com/

What is a woman's excuse for getting PG today? I know one. Stupidity. So because she is stupid and irresponsible she should have the baby killed. Then go do it again. I know, I know I should not say baby it is only a fetus. However that is where we all came from and without them you would not be here, nor would anyone else. Life is already started make no mistake about it and don't give me some liberal doctor's article stating otherwise because I can give you just as many rebutals. I don't want to read his BS. If that is his idea. Than it is to bad he was not a product of an abortion when he was a fetus. Smile.

Now if anyone here can skip the fetus part and go right to what they term a baby, please tell us how you do that. A puppy is not a dog it is a puppy. So if the law said we cannot kill dogs, according to your logic we could kill puppies and all would be well. So you could kill your neighbor's puppy for barking to much because it is only a puppy. Glad that works for you. Ever hear of the word semantics? Well that is your logic here in not calling a fetus a baby. Abortions are carried out usually for a woman's convience. Very few are performed because of rape or certain death for the mother or other medical reasons. Also again let me state that the would be mother is not sick, she is PG. Also let me add again abortion is not birth control. It is murder of a fetus, baby or whatever you wish to call it. if it makes it easier for you to endure this practice then continue to tell yourself a fetus is nothing and will be nothing and it does not matter. However you are lying to yourself and you know it.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
landmark
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On Sep 2, 2014, Dannydoyle wrote:
Ok killing a fetus. Feel better?

Still got the bad back thing, but that's age I guess.

It makes the terms of argument much different from how you initially framed it.
Dannydoyle
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Sorry the ending of a life is framed poorly for you.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
acesover
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Some more of my post count has been lowered. From over 1,000 now down to high 800's. I have lost post count in excess of 100 posts and have been off the forum for over a month. And yes I read what the reason is supposed to be and it does not hold water. Someone is having a lot of fun I guess. Also there is no way to check on what happened. Shades of Lois Lerner.

I have a few items I wish to sell. I better list them before my count goes to low and I can't.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
Dannydoyle
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I am sure it is a conspiracy.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
landmark
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On Sep 2, 2014, Dannydoyle wrote:
Sorry the ending of a life is framed poorly for you.


Again, whether a fetus is a life is exactly what is being contested.

Is a woman who has an abortion guilty of murder in your opinion? Should she get capital punishment?
Dannydoyle
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It is ending the development of life. Hide behind whatever lets you sleep at night. And no I am not a capitol punishment guy in the first place.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
landmark
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On Sep 2, 2014, acesover wrote:
Some more of my post count has been lowered. From over 1,000 now down to high 800's. I have lost post count in excess of 100 posts and have been off the forum for over a month. And yes I read what the reason is supposed to be and it does not hold water. Someone is having a lot of fun I guess. Also there is no way to check on what happened. Shades of Lois Lerner.

I have a few items I wish to sell. I better list them before my count goes to low and I can't.

Wait--those posts for auction on ebay were yours? D*mn. You'll excuse me if some of my next few posts sound familiar, aces...
landmark
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On Sep 2, 2014, Dannydoyle wrote:
It is ending the development of life. Hide behind whatever lets you sleep at night. And no I am not a capitol punishment guy in the first place.

Life imprisonment then?
Dannydoyle
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I never said it was a punishable offense.

Sorry but your little high school logic traps don't work on me.

Punishment is based on law.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
mastermindreader
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On Sep 2, 2014, Dannydoyle wrote:
It is ending the development of life.


Then every teen age boy is guilty of genocide in the privacy of his own room.Smile
R.S.
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Suppose you are the only adult in a fertility clinic. There is also a 5 year old girl (in a wheelchair, say) and a container of 1,000 frozen embryos. A devastating and quick moving fire breaks out and your only option is to either a) carry out the container of embryos, letting the 5 year old perish, or b) carry out the 5 year old girl, letting the 1,000 embryos be destroyed. Which would you choose?


Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
mastermindreader
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The girl, of course. The embryos haven't been born, nor are they viable. A pregnancy doesn't exist until the fertilized egg attaches to the wall of the womb. (And since the embryos, if thawed, would have no brain function or heart beat, they are clinically dead.)

But don't forget!.... (dedicated to acesover)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUspLVStPbk
R.S.
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"Embryos may be frozen immediately after fertilization at the pronuclear stage"

http://www.ivf.com/cryoperm.html

Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
Dannydoyle
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On Sep 2, 2014, mastermindreader wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 2, 2014, Dannydoyle wrote:
It is ending the development of life.


Then every teen age boy is guilty of genocide in the privacy of his own room.Smile


Not until at EARLIEST conception, but you knew that and this was a good joke.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Dannydoyle
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On Sep 2, 2014, R.S. wrote:
Suppose you are the only adult in a fertility clinic. There is also a 5 year old girl (in a wheelchair, say) and a container of 1,000 frozen embryos. A devastating and quick moving fire breaks out and your only option is to either a) carry out the container of embryos, letting the 5 year old perish, or b) carry out the 5 year old girl, letting the 1,000 embryos be destroyed. Which would you choose?


Ron


Yea fake moral dilemmas to make a point are great mental exercises and all. What exactly do you think they prove?

You don't believe killing is right, but what if you could go back in time and kill Hitler? (OOOOO A Hitler point!)
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
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