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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » How Can DC Catch Up With Marvel? (22 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Cliffg37
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Back to the original question.

When my daughter and I watched "Spider-man far from home," Something felt really wrong. Oh, the movie was fine and it was fun. I don't think it was meant to be a world on your shoulders kind of business. What I soon realized I was feeling was a huge letdown. Marvel had taken eleven years, or whatever, to tell a very long story, and that story was finished.

There is the promise of the next story in Phase Four, but that has clearly not arrived yet.

So, if DC was going to make their move, now would have been a perfect time. They could have taken advantage of the lull and began to drive in their movies. Obviously, DC did not do this. Instead, they are going to jam all their TV heroes into the crossover TV episodes this year called "Crisis on Infinite Earths." That story ark took a year to tell in a maxi-series back in 1987. It was a good story, but it was designed with one goal in mind. To change the DC multi-verse into the DC universe. It did its job well. I don't know what DC really hopes to gain by doing this on TV, other than to kill off a couple of characters, but we will see.

Perhaps DC is not interested in competing against Marvel, or perhaps they gave up. Either way, I think they missed a great opportunity.
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Dannydoyle
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You are skipping over the idea that they think they are competing. Yout may disagree with how buy they have a plan.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Mr Salk
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DC has the actual name-brand super heroes.
For a ridiculous time ask your parents/grandparents to name some characters off the Infinity poster. Maybe they get Spiderman and Hulk..
.


.
Jonathan Townsend
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Do the movies have to reflect comics code values?
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JoshDude849
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DC in ten times as good as Marvel. I mean really...Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, etc. All of the most well known heroes and villains are DC.

Straight up.

DC for the dub. W!
Orville Smith
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Joshua,don't forget The Flash (especially with his successful television series). After all he is considered one of DC's Big-Five. Interesting that also Green Lantern is considered to be one of those Big-5 but it seems he has been Unseated by Aquaman of late.
Mr Salk
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Quote:
On Aug 22, 2019, JoshDude849 wrote:
DC in ten times as good as Marvel. I mean really...Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, etc. All of the most well known heroes and villains are DC.

Straight up.


DC is outdated and old-fashioned. Mutants are the future my friend.
.


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Cliffg37
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Quote:
On Aug 22, 2019, JoshDude849 wrote:
DC in ten times as good as Marvel. I mean really...Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, etc. All of the most well known heroes and villains are DC.
Straight up.
DC for the dub. W!


While I can kind of agree with that, I am thinking that Spider-man and the Hulk may demonstrate a disagreement with your thoughts

Yes, Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman are probably traditionally more known worldwide and for more years, but with the Marvel movies of the last 10 years that may no longer be true.
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Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On Aug 23, 2019, Mr Salk wrote:
Quote:
On Aug 22, 2019, JoshDude849 wrote:
DC in ten times as good as Marvel. I mean really...Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, etc. All of the most well known heroes and villains are DC.

Straight up.


DC is outdated and old-fashioned. Mutants are the future my friend.
Do you mean the spandex and cape stuff? Comics have not lived in 1930s retroland since The Dark Knight Returns. When did this change happen? Look when the tile Love and Rockets was published. About the same time as color reprints of Judge Dredd arrived. Welcome to 1983. DC published All Star Superman... a decade ago. Comic readers were done pondering matching boots and cape sets decades before stories went meta and sent characters into other comicbook worlds. Thor met Beta Ray Bill in 1983. A couple of years later readers enjoyed being wowed by Elektra Assassin.

Conflicts between obsession and perseverance are hardly old-fashioned. I sure hope optimism is not outdated.

context: https://www.theguardian.com/books/booksb......en-ellis
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Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Aug 23, 2019, Cliffg37 wrote:
Quote:
On Aug 22, 2019, JoshDude849 wrote:
DC in ten times as good as Marvel. I mean really...Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, etc. All of the most well known heroes and villains are DC.
Straight up.
DC for the dub. W!


While I can kind of agree with that, I am thinking that Spider-man and the Hulk may demonstrate a disagreement with your thoughts

Yes, Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman are probably traditionally more known worldwide and for more years, but with the Marvel movies of the last 10 years that may no longer be true.


Yes the Marvel movies have done that no doubt. Billion dollar franchises to say the least. The appeal spans well past comic book fans and includes people like my mother and sister who never looked at a comic or knew batman past Adam West.

They even managed to take obscure titles such as Guardians and Ant Man and bring them to world wide audiences. DC has trouble getting a good Sups movie.

DC has decades long established charectors that they can't manage to get movie going public interest in. That hardly seems like "DC for the dub. W." to me.

The Christian Bale forest two movies were a good start but then plateaued.
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JoshDude849
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Quote:
On Aug 23, 2019, Dannydoyle wrote:
Quote:
On Aug 23, 2019, Cliffg37 wrote:
Quote:
On Aug 22, 2019, JoshDude849 wrote:
DC in ten times as good as Marvel. I mean really...Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, etc. All of the most well known heroes and villains are DC.
Straight up.
DC for the dub. W!


While I can kind of agree with that, I am thinking that Spider-man and the Hulk may demonstrate a disagreement with your thoughts

Yes, Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman are probably traditionally more known worldwide and for more years, but with the Marvel movies of the last 10 years that may no longer be true.


Yes the Marvel movies have done that no doubt. Billion dollar franchises to say the least. The appeal spans well past comic book fans and includes people like my mother and sister who never looked at a comic or knew batman past Adam West.

They even managed to take obscure titles such as Guardians and Ant Man and bring them to world wide audiences. DC has trouble getting a good Sups movie.

DC has decades long established characters that they can't manage to get movie going public interest in. That hardly seems like "DC for the dub. W." to me.

The Christian Bale forest two movies were a good start but then plateaued.


Really, have you looked at the box office of recent movies? You must be misinformed. Aquaman did reach the billion dollar box office mark, with Wonder Woman, and Justice League not far behind. The Dark Knight topped a billion dollars. In fact, the majority of box office for sales were $600 mil+.

The Avengers series is all that Marvel has. I'm sure if DC continued with Justice League, they would gross a couple billion for each movie too. I'm talking about the big picture. I've seen the Avengers movies, its the same plot line every time. Infinity War finally killed some characters off, which may or may not have a future impact on revenue.

But to each their own I surmise.
Dannydoyle
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Https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_......ro_films

I have indeed looked at those numbers and it seems as if at least one of us is uninformed. But you might be mistaken as to who exactly that is. Go over this and get back to me.

But here are the highlights.
Of the 23 MCU films 2 are not in the top 50. Let that sink in.

Another tidbit. The top five highest-grossing superhero films and eight out of the top ten highest-grossing superhero films have been produced by Marvel Studios, within the Marvel Cinematic Universe (MCU).

So again read it all and get back to me about how misinformed I am. Tough to argue numbers just because you like DC.
I am a DC fan personally. I really am a big Batman fan. But I'd never argue the box office numbers based on that preference. That is just silly.
Danny Doyle
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Jonathan Townsend
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Surprised the recent DC movies did that well. Here are some of the numbers:
https://www.boxofficemojo.com/franchises......mics.htm
https://www.boxofficemojo.com/franchises......mics.htm
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ed rhodes
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The thing to remember is that Marvel started with Iron Man, a b-lister at best. This left them open to interpret the character as they wished. Marvel also presented each hero in their own film, before pulling the Avengers. DC tried to start with their a-listers, then let Zack Snyder play around with the archetypes! And they wondered why people got upset.
"He was born with the gift of laughter and a sense that the world was mad." - Rafael Sabatini, Scaramouche
ed rhodes
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Dark Knight, btw, is not part of the DCCU.
"He was born with the gift of laughter and a sense that the world was mad." - Rafael Sabatini, Scaramouche
Dannydoyle
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They started with A-List charectors and went on to do very bad movies in most cases. Archetype aside this was what upset people.
Danny Doyle
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Cliffg37
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For the life of me I cannot imagine, A-List or B-List or whatever, why DC can't seem to come up with a script that works the way Marvel scripts do? Does Marvel just have the market cornered on good comic book movie writers?
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Jonathan Townsend
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Joss Whedon might be busy.
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Orville Smith
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Quote:
On Aug 25, 2019, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
Joss Whedon might be busy.

While you're at it, Jonathan, how about Geoff Johns? Because he's doing pretty good at The Flash TV series. What's interesting is that he expressed annoyance at Mark Waid's creation of the so-called Speed Force, the extradimensional-force that's responsible for the rapid speed of ALL the different speedsters. His objection is that the Speed-Force is too much like the Star Wars force. I don't like it either because I think it interferes with their origins in the basic mythos.
It depends though. Because sometimes these so-called "after the fact" stories are acceptable. For example what was done later on with Captain Comet's origin. Because in the original story, the arrival of the space-comet was taken to be just an Omen. That the arrival of the comet had nothing to do at all with Adam Blake-- that Adam Blake would have gotten his superpowers anyway, simply because he was born a genetic mutant. But then in the "after the fact" story it said that the comet triggered off Blake's superpowers which would have otherwise lain dormant. In that case that Rewriting was acceptable. But what was really bad was the Rewriting of the Fantastic Four origin in which it was shown that Reed Richards knew beforehand that the cosmic storm would give them those powers. But that's very bad because it means that Reed did not care at all that Ben Grimm would turn into a Monster. Pretty callous. So thumbs down on that one.
Jonathan Townsend
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I've followed Whedon's work since Buffy (soap opera on primetime tv) and he does have a nice way with character dialogue. The Flash TV series, and Supergirl for that matter, seems to be doing well. I'll reserve comment on Geoff Johns till I see where Doomsday Clock goes when it resumes publishing with issue 11. I don't like it when they go off schedule.

Comicbook mythos was tissue thin by design. The publishers decided what's canon for their branded characters. I use past tense as both Marvel and DC have addressed the matter. There are worlds in Marvel's Negative Zone. There are other universes in DC's realm including where the New Gods happened - and before. That door was opened and left open back in the early 1970s. What was that world like before it split into Apocalypse and New Genesis? When an author takes on a title almost anything goes. Alan Moore demonstrated that with Swamp Thing when he reframed the title character. It's been a very long slog between Miracleman 2 and the Man of Steel movie.

What about all those back issues and collectors and lore? You've read Heinlein's Unpleasant Profession story. It's whatever the writer and publisher agree it was. It was and is a palimpsest.
Time travel - Michael Crichton write "Timeline" and it collapsed into portal fantasy.
Fantastic Four interpreted as mean - been done in a title called Planetary.
Superman with a human temper - See Rick Veitch's Maximortal.

If you want consistency and continuity there's Euclid's Elements Smile
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