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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » How Can DC Catch Up With Marvel? (19 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Orville Smith
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Discrepancy of the Elongated Man on the CW series is that bullets cannot penetrate him. Instead,Invulnerability would apply only to Plastic Man but certainly not to the Elongated Man because in the comics he has to always dodge those bullets.
In comparison, Plastic Man has been clearly established as Immortal because his body is constantly fluid or at least semi-fluid. In that perpetual state of fluidity, he cannot be killed.
ed rhodes
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The writers may be confusing EM with PM. Just because they’re writing a series about comic book characters doesn’t mean they KNOW anything about comic book characters!
"He was born with the gift of laughter and a sense that the world was mad." - Rafael Sabatini, Scaramouche
Cliffg37
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I actually think it makes sense. EM was never shown to be bullet proof, but the chances on him regularly being fast enough on the stretch to dodge consistently are slim. PM would often change shape unexpectly when hit with an outside force, and Reed Richards can deflect bullets if he is ready for them. I like the special effects of it too!
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Orville Smith
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On Dec 4, 2017, Cliffg37 wrote:
and Reed Richards can deflect bullets if he is ready for them.

Actually the very first time I saw a bizarre bullet -deflection was in the X-Men when they first encountered the mutant, the Blob. I don't know whether to call it super- flab or protoplasmic, but the way his bullet deflection works
is that when he gets shot at, the bullets first imbed themselves in his body, after which they can be propelled outward.
Orville Smith
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Admittedly it is with some bias that I saw the Justice League movie. Because the only character I like is the Flash so that was the sole reason for my attendance. Much as I hate to say it, I was disappointed at the way the Flash was depicted. Same reason why the Flash TVseries disappoints me. The only reason I resumed watching the TVseries again is due to the addition of the Elongated Man.
rockwall
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I think a big reason for Marvel's success over DC's is how true to their characters Marvel has mostly been. Watch the first Ironman, Captain America, Thor. The actors they chose and how they portrayed the characters brought the characters we all knew and loved alive. Robert Downey Jr. WAS Ironman. Chris Hemsworth WAS Thor. Chris Evans WAS Captain America.

Then look at DC. While I don't hate Justice League, Flash and Aquaman are NOT the characters I knew from the comics. They are interesting takes on the characters but definitely not the characters we grew up with. Batman and Superman are close but both have problems. Wonder Woman was probably the best representation of who we remember as Wonder Woman and not surprisingly, critically the most successful of the DC movies.

While the latest Spiderman may not have made the most money, (and that could easily be attributed to Spiderman fatigue after all the previous movies), it was a huge hit with the critics and fans who wanted to see Spiderman portrayed as they remembered him.

There are exceptions to the rule. The latest Thor certainly changed Thor's character in ways that don't ring true to Thor canon but I think that for the most part you can say that Marvel has done a much better job of nailing the characters and not trying to 're-imagine' all of them.

There are probably a ton of other reasons why Marvel has been so much more successful but I think this is a big one.
Terrible Wizard
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Well put Rockwall.
Dannydoyle
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I think one reason that aligns with Rockwall's point is they have a better overall plan as well.

To have a 40 year old Batman and a new Flash is odd. All the movies in the MCU seem more cohesive to me. They seem to know how they want them to fit together. DC seems to want to go with the wind.

It will be interesting when Cap and Iron Man leave and if they are replaced how that works.
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NYCTwister
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When you stop to think about it D.C. has been playing catch up since Amazing Fantasy #15.
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Jonathan Townsend
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On Dec 10, 2017, NYCTwister wrote:
When you stop to think about it D.C. has been playing catch up since Amazing Fantasy #15.


That's where Spiderman was introduced?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
NYCTwister
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Yep.
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Orville Smith
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On Dec 10, 2017, NYCTwister wrote:
When you stop to think about it D.C. has been playing catch up since Amazing Fantasy #15.

Actually, DC was still going strong during that time, with both Justice League and The Flash. The way I see it, the point at which Marvel overtook DC was when Chris Claremont began writing for the X-Men. At that point, the X-Men became so popular that it resulted in many spin-offs such as the X Factor, the New Mutants, the X-Force, etc.
NYCTwister
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DC was still a force of course, but they were entrenched; and not really connected to the reader at the time.

Stan Lee really did something marvelous by introducing characters that readers were able to relate to; powerful, but vulnerable.
Add Jack Kirby - and it was over.

By the time I got into the business in 1981 Marvel ruled everything.
Back issues? If you had DC then you'd have to bring them in; but I'd go anywhere for a good collection of Marvels.

My order for new books was always like 75% Marvel, with the rest spread between DC, independents, and specialty items.

I agree that Claremont and Byrne's X-men was a big level jump, but it just increased a huge lead.
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Cliffg37
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Cliff clears his throat and looks around quietly....

Anybody remember the day in June of 1938 when National Periodical Publications premiered "Superman" in Action Comics #1.

Timely Comics soon came on strong and fast. They brought out such greats as The Human Torch, (Who by the way wasn't originally human) Namor, and their star... Captain America.

Today of course they are DC and Marvel. But it seems to me that all the comic book companies have DC to thank for starting the ball rolling.

Trivia question: How many comic books can you name that have been published without a break since the early 1940's? (Not counting re-boots as a break, I can think of maybe five)
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ed rhodes
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Speaking of the Original Human Torch, I loved that you could see him in a cameo in the first Captain America movie, which was a great injoke in that Chris Evans played the Human Torch (not THAT one, but the Human Torch nonetheless).
"He was born with the gift of laughter and a sense that the world was mad." - Rafael Sabatini, Scaramouche
NYCTwister
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Quote:
On Dec 17, 2017, Cliffg37 wrote:
Cliff clears his throat and looks around quietly....

Anybody remember the day in June of 1938 when National Periodical Publications premiered "Superman" in Action Comics #1.

Timely Comics soon came on strong and fast. They brought out such greats as The Human Torch, (Who by the way wasn't originally human) Namor, and their star... Captain America.

Today of course they are DC and Marvel. But it seems to me that all the comic book companies have DC to thank for starting the ball rolling.

Trivia question: How many comic books can you name that have been published without a break since the early 1940's? (Not counting re-boots as a break, I can think of maybe five)


I totally agree that DC got things going with the Superhero genre, but my point is that DC didn't react properly to the cultural shift that was occurring.

Because, as you said, they were largely responsible for the Superhero genre and were pretty dominant up to that point, there characters were iconic, and largely unrelatable.

Superman was TOO super for the time, while Spider-man was a neurotic teenager.

It's not any inherent flaw on DC's part, it's just that Marvel was creating itself during a time of great change, and they could go with the flow; while DC had their lore to follow.

As a side note; Batman, DC's most "human" character, was always my biggest seller.
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Orville Smith
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Quote:
On Dec 17, 2017, NYCTwister wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 17, 2017, Cliffg37 wrote:
Cliff clears his throat and looks around quietly....

Anybody remember the day in June of 1938 when National Periodical Publications premiered "Superman" in Action Comics #1.

Timely Comics soon came on strong and fast. They brought out such greats as The Human Torch, (Who by the way wasn't originally human) Namor, and their star... Captain America.

Today of course they are DC and Marvel. But it seems to me that all the comic book companies have DC to thank for starting the ball rolling.

Trivia question: How many comic books can you name that have been published without a break since the early 1940's? (Not counting re-boots as a break, I can think of maybe five)


As a side note; Batman, DC's most "human" character, was always my biggest seller.


Yes, the biggest seller at your shop, which confirms my point about DC's dominance during the time. Also the same point could be made of Superman because he had so many successful spin-off titles such as Jimmy Olsen's comic and Lois Lane comic and even World's Finest comic which teamed him up with Batman. To have spin-offs which lasted that many years,shows the character's enduring popularity.

Much as I acknowledge the popularity of those two characters, it's certainly ironic that I hardly bought those comics, if at all. Instead I preferred buying the Flash, and the Justice League, and the Doom Patrol. And oh, The Atom too.

In fact,the popularity of the Adam West TV show created an annoyance for me from the Batman. Because when the TV series took America by storm, the comics followed suit by featuring Batman much too prominently on the Justice League covers as compared with previously when all of the heroes were shown equally. In fact, it got so disgusting that Batman dominated the Justice League covers so much that in one issue the cover prominently showed him battling an Antimatter-alien when in fact he never battled the alien at all in the story itself. Instead it was The Spectre who confronted the alien. So stupidly disgusting to show a totally misleading cover just to capitalize on the Adam West series.
Orville Smith
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Just for the record, it was the cover of Justice League #47, so you can see the point I was trying to make.
In spite of that flaw, that issue is one of the best stories of the Justice League, with the high point being Spectre encountering the Antimatter Alien. What makes it the high point is that it's the first time I've ever seen a situation where a Ghost clashes with an Antimatter being. Fascinating the bizarre effects that the Spectre experiences in that clash. And certainly innovative because I've never seen such a situation in any media yet.
Orville Smith
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In addition to the aforementioned Spectre, another ghostly DC character was the villain Gentleman Jim Craddock the Gentleman Ghost. He's easily noticeable because he is seen as just disembodied garments with a floating top hat. What I find contradictory is that even though he is obviously intangible, he can still hold a flintlock pistol and fire it. A more believable and more plausible story using intangibility was the JL story "Challenge of the Untouchable Aliens." In the case of the Gentleman Ghost the contradiction is never explained whereas in the story of the JL aliens, they come from an extra-dimensional world where the paradox is explained as a time differential. They were destroying certain landmarks here on our Earth because they had scientifically predetermined that when some of their interdimensional cities coincided at the same times with the locations of certain cities on Earth that it would result in the destruction of the alien cities. So for self-preservation they attempted to destroy the Earth cities in those coinciding locations.
Cliffg37
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Remember that the shadow thief had special shadow gloves that he wore to touch (and steel) tangible objects. The fact that Craddock's hat stayed on his head. or that his clothes remained on his body are proof that he has some control over his intangibility. Did anyone ever punch the Craddock? Did they hit their target or pass through.
Magic is like Science,
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