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Zachary Loyal user 275 Posts |
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More miss information? I can get behind that idea, Dave.
Twitter:@Zachary_Heath
Instagram: @zachheathmagic |
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tomsk192 Inner circle 3894 Posts |
Look, you can get behind what you want [ooer missus], but the fact remains that for anyone with even a shred of experience, we know what this is without even buying it. I think the review was very fair. What you, Zachary, displayed in that video was delusional. I won't crowd your Latest & Greatest thread with the nitty gritty, but here's why:
1) Your patronising comments as to audience management. You can't control drunk people getting behind you at a wedding or similar. You just can't. In the USA, perhaps everybody is a paragon? But where I come from, (which is the same country as DP), suggesting that you "go back to the mirror" is... Well, this is a family forum. Enough said. 2) Those sideways poses would be busted by the drunk people mentioned above. 3) As DP points out, the changes would get busted even by a passing sober person. 4) a) This is a close up trick, right? Therefore, all the posing at the beginning of your video is so very mannered, and totally useless in the context of an actual set of close up magic. Yes, from the straight on camera angle, with those hand gestures, we can't see the other side of the ring. Well done that man. But I refer you to those drunk and sober people mentioned above. As I mentioned in your L&G thread, it would be quite useful to have the option of an ungimmicked silver or gold ring, for those who do not wear black jewlery (e.g. grown ups). That way, at least you could put this into an actual set, with a ring that has been on display the whole time: front and back. b) This is neither an opener nor a closer, for me at least. Therefore, there needs to be something stolen then ditched. 5) It's a very pretty effect. In that I also agree with DP. In fact, everybody thinks it's pretty. But don't try to bulls**t a forum which comprises of many professional !@#$%^&*ters. You will always come unstuck. You are undermining your credibility here, in that I agree with DP. Take it on the chin, son. |
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CarterMagic1210 New user 10 Posts |
Love the product and the effect the change is super visual burps I have to agree with Dave, I can't see it being 180 degrees at all I've a look at the gimmick and it's superb and a great trick but until I see it performed to a relatively big audience with the angles I won't be getting it yet but be great for a show reel for wedding magic promotion video Do really like it Zachary and eventually I'll be getting it but will love to see it performed within the angles and to an audience
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gtx magic Special user United Kingdom England 954 Posts |
Ash & Ember a great visual moment...but I must in all honesty agree With DP, Merc Man, and tomsk192.
Trying to convince people something that isn't viable will loose Zach credibility. Graham
Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence.
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frankvomit Elite user 485 Posts |
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On Sep 11, 2014, dp wrote: Don't forget your mummy's!!!! |
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Dougini Inner circle The Beautiful State Of Maine 7130 Posts |
Myself, I like this. I can work around angles. I do that a lot. Fifty bucks is outta my price range, but this is unique enough to be recommended!
Doug |
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sirbrad Inner circle PA 2096 Posts |
I remember getting a Mummy prop similar in a magic set in the 80's and 90's similar to this, and one version just had a different image on a 4-sided block, and the magician could tell you which side was facing up by looking at it. So not sure how similar they are. Nice to see Sean cut that rats nest finally, I guess it took a wedding to get it done.
The great trouble with magicians is the fact that they believe when they have bought a certain trick or piece of apparatus, and know the method or procedure, that they are full-fledged mystifiers. -- Harry Houdini
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Dougini Inner circle The Beautiful State Of Maine 7130 Posts |
What I wouldn't give to have half the hair Sean does! The haircut looks good! I like The Mummy. Good Halloween trick.
Doug |
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sirbrad Inner circle PA 2096 Posts |
Quote:
On Sep 11, 2014, Adam Joseph wrote: Would be interesting and entertaining, but would not work out that well because there is already enough talking over each other with two people. Three people would be even worse as soon as one stopped the other two would start.
The great trouble with magicians is the fact that they believe when they have bought a certain trick or piece of apparatus, and know the method or procedure, that they are full-fledged mystifiers. -- Harry Houdini
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sirbrad Inner circle PA 2096 Posts |
I personally don't perform for drunks as I despise them and drinking in general, and I don't need to accept every gig that calls I select the gigs I want to do, mostly sober adults, teens, kids, or seniors. I don't perform at bars as they are dirty, smoke infested, crapholes filled with idiots usually especially in a college town. So for me the angles are a non issue. I also agree that angly tricks can many times be more amazing, as well as tricks labeled "impractical" or tricks requiring too much set up and work that most are too lazy to do, and they want to play it "safe". Like Dave I will go out of my way doing intricate set-ups for maximum effect and to do something for the audience they never saw before instead of making a card come to the top of the deck or restoring a rope.
I wrote an essay on the subject about 10 years ago "Practical VS Impractical" which pretty much explains my thoughts on the subject, and how much of time "impractical" usually is substituted for "too much work" by many. But there are some tricks that are impractical for certain venues due to angle issues etc. But I go out of my way to achieve the best effect and do stuff other magicians are not doing, or do my own take on standard effects and with my own presentation. But many these days don't want to do hard stuff, they want everything to come easy, self-contained, no angle issues, no sleight of hand, and fully examinable. They also want all the credit for it as well which is laughable too say the least.
The great trouble with magicians is the fact that they believe when they have bought a certain trick or piece of apparatus, and know the method or procedure, that they are full-fledged mystifiers. -- Harry Houdini
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tomsk192 Inner circle 3894 Posts |
I think we live in different countries, sirbrad, do we not?
I can envisage making a living in the USA and mostly avoiding drunk people. I'm familiar with the USA. Are you familiar with England? I went with my wife and one of our children to see Richard III, two nights ago; a new departure for Martin Freeman, incidentally. Some people behind us didn't turn up until the second half, and they were clearly more than half cut. In this town, and on this island, you can't avoid drunk people, short of going to a Mosque or to a Methodist Chapel, even if you spend £70 on your ticket to see Shakespeare. Horses for courses, sunshine. Or, if you like: Do you think because you are virtuous, that there shall be no more cakes and ale? I've been dealing with drunks all my life; I don't like them anymore than you do. I'm about to start seeing a lot more of them, but that's another, private, story. And to assume that any objection to impracticality equates to laziness, is lacking in imagination. I use a bloody hold-out, from time to time. Everything gets weighed up; I think you have the unfortunate habit of assuming that you somehow have a monopoly on informed choice. We aren't all lazy and stupid, funnily enough. |
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sirbrad Inner circle PA 2096 Posts |
Yeah I believe you stated that before awhile back, but I was simply saying I can avoid them and do. I mostly get paying and appreciative audiences and rarely have any problems as those types are filtered out. But as I said I established my reputation and clients over 30 years now so I can be selective and I know most of my clients and repeat clients know what I expect. But back in the day I dealt with all types of idiots when first starting out but it was a great learning experience.
If you are a beginner these types may even help you by exposing weaknesses in your routines unless it is unfairly done from bad angles etc. But for the most part they are just idiots and detract from the magical experience and enjoyment of the rest of the people. Some choose to work in those types of venues and some even like it. But I would much rather perform for those who love magic and appreciate it as they are the best audiences. So I am glad that after all the work I put in that I can select my audience as opposed to having to do any gig that comes up. That would make magic way too much work, and it is hard enough work already. I did not say "all" substitute the term impractical for laziness but I have seen many do so on these and other forums. I think it takes a lot more imagination to find ways to make something work than to simply deem it not useable because it is too much work or too much set up. I know some tricks just won't work but I am speaking of those that would actually work but just require a lot of work or set up but are killer in the end and worth the effort. Of course there are a lot of variables and personal preferences that play a factor as well. Some effects may be impractical to a certain venue, or time limit etc. But I am talking more so about those who think that just because something requires a set up that it is automatically impractical because it is not impromptu. But that is whole other discussion.
The great trouble with magicians is the fact that they believe when they have bought a certain trick or piece of apparatus, and know the method or procedure, that they are full-fledged mystifiers. -- Harry Houdini
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dp Veteran user 345 Posts |
Dear Sirbrad
The issue for myself with this great effect is the fact that our video review was called Inacurate because I in particular have reservations about angles. I have seen nothing on the download or subsequent videos to convince me otherwise. A long post or essays saying that this is about laziness does not prove the point. Let me reiterate once again that I do think the effect is great if you manage these angles. Every effect has issues of some kind and it is the performers responsibility as an artiste to manage these. However it is also my responsibility as a reviewer to point them out. A responsibility I try to take as seriously as I can see you do from your style of writing. However much you write, it is what it is. A great trick with some issues that need to be managed. Obviously yourself and the creator do not agree and that's ok. Essays are great but I tend to believe that the best arguments can be put over very succinctly. Cheers Dave
Close Up Magician & Illusionist - David Penn
Search The Wizard Product Review at http://www.worldmagicshop.com |
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sirbrad Inner circle PA 2096 Posts |
Dave I actually was not referring to this particular effect in regards to laziness, but other effects in general that require elaborate set up and some just label them "impractical" because they are too much work and set up. I don't have this trick so actually I do not agree or disagree either way as I cannot make a fully accurate assessment being I do not have it. But it is a cool color change and I don't doubt there is angle issues. I simply stated how many do take the lazy way out and are not willing to go through a lot of effort in set up or risk bad angles etc and tend to play it safe, most of the time diluting the impact for the sake of convenience and playing it safe. But I was not saying that was the case with this effect.
But I remember Craig saying that you also will go through a lot of set up to provide maximum effect and entertainment value and you agreeing. But yes it is the magician/artist's job to present it in the best way possible, and decide if angles are an issue depending on their situation and environment. But there are some who won't even bother to try if there are ANY angle issues. That is their choice but it doesn't make it a bad trick or mean that no one else will be able to make it work. Every situation, performer, and venue is different.
The great trouble with magicians is the fact that they believe when they have bought a certain trick or piece of apparatus, and know the method or procedure, that they are full-fledged mystifiers. -- Harry Houdini
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inhumaninferno Elite user 452 Posts |
I'll drink to that, Dave!
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JD_UK Regular user 155 Posts |
!@#$ the ash & ember angles debate! That mummy trick is frickin' awesome!!!
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Merc Man Inner circle NUNEATON, Warwickshire 2537 Posts |
To be honest, I (and others) could build a routine out of 'The Mummy'.
The trick, with the ring, is basically over in a flash. The difference between a performance, and a two second wonder, eh? As Ken Brooke (as a magic dealer) used to say "you can sell a performers trick to a performer, and a magicians trick to a magician;..........but you will never sell a performers trick to a magician, and you will never sell a magicians trick to a performer". Two effects here guys that epitomise Ken's words to the letter.
Barry Allen
Over 14 years have passed - and still missing Abra Magazine arriving every Saturday morning. |
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Wizard of Oz Inner circle Most people wish I didn't have 5150 Posts |
Quote:
On Sep 18, 2014, Merc Man wrote: Yes.
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.
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yin_howe Special user Malaysia 981 Posts |
Quote:
On Sep 19, 2014, JD_UK wrote: I'm gonna get the mummy!
"Talent without passion is talent wasted.."
https://www.youtube.com/user/yinhowe80/ |
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Marvello Inner circle It's amazing how little I can say in 1612 Posts |
Enjoyed the show - Sean should be a regular
Never criticize someone else until you have walked a mile in their shoes. Then, when you do criticize them, you will be a mile away from them and you will have their shoes.
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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Wizard Product Review from World Magic Shop » » Wizard Product Review 219: Ash & Ember, Jacks 4 You, The Mummy and Manivelle (5 Likes) | ||||||||||
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