Folks,

Does the condition of the silks help you with upsetting a knot? Are silks like cards...you need a new pair after several performances? I am asking because my silks are about a year old. They have creases, small snags, etc. I can still upset a square knot with the utmost ease, but now I can't upset a granny knot to save my life. I have to pull on the silks multiple times with a lot of force to upset a granny knot now. (Yes, I am pulling the ear of the threaded silk and the body of the threaded silk to upset both knots).

I have tied the granny knot very slowly, but still can't upset it anymore. Do I need to get myself some new silks? Does the first knot of the granny knot need to be tied extra tight or something. I'm having trouble figuring out why I can't upset this knot anymore.

Any advice / information would be appreciated.

Regards,

A frustrated knot maker

Real 100% silk has no finish on it. It has 2/3s the tensile strength of steel!

I didn't think it was POSSIBLE to upset a Granny knot.

You are correct!

Bob,

Who is correct? Me or StevieDee?

How to upset a granny knot
http://books.google.co.jp/books?id=IwjCA......wQ6AEwAA

There is a difference between untying and to upset a knot. Granny knots are technically untied.

(I am an old Tony Slydini student! Tony untied the top half hitch before it became a Granny knot.)

Intrepid - Thanks for the link, which confirmed that both knots are upset the same way.

Bob - You should be able to upset both type of knots regardless of how tight they are tied. With my silks I can upset a tight square knot, but can't upset a granny knot at all anymore. My concern is the way I am tying the knot and/or the condition of my silks. If there is slack in the silks when I tie them (meaning the silks aren't taut when tying the knot and the silks 'bunch/spread out' while tying...I am not describing this very well) will the knot be difficult to upset. I used to be able to upset a granny knot, but now I can't. I don't' understand what is going on.

My silks are stretched out in the corners, wrinkled, and snagged. Do I need new ones?

Tony used rip-stop nylon. I use silk.

Dave, if you wash them gently one at a time (hand wash cold water, bit of dish detergent, rinse well and dry them on a glass door (they will fall in the sink if you use the bathroom mirror) you will see how nice they can look.

Snaggy silks will not recover but there are many uses for old silk.
A line of silks for quick production that never needs to be untied can be good (Tie the oldest ends).
A silk fountain doesn't need pristine silk. I once gave away one of my old fountain of silks because it was falling apart. I gave it to a young Magician so he could see how it was made and get some practice. He used it in a show that I saw later and the thing looked gorgeous.
Always use old silk for practice in hank ball work or silk on rope, Silk production rolls etc…the colors don't have to be right. Why wear out your good silk?
Sometimes you only need the corner of a silk for misdirection.
I never throw them away till they are really horrible but I keep them in a trash silk box.

Ratty silk should not be used in a show.

I rarely iron my silk. I like it to have a lot of tiny wrinkles but I keep it as flat as I can between shows.

-Mary Mowder

David (Dworak)

I learned how the "vanishing square knot was DONE, in 1941. I was 9 years old. It did take a few years before I could DO it. --and a few more years to figure out how to DO it so that it ENTERTAINED an audience!!!

I read your post about 0700 this AM. I had an early appointment, so I couldn't takt time to reply until now.

I know/knew that a granny can be upset. I've upset enough of them in the last 60 years!!! I tried to check out Intrepid's link, but it wouldn't "work" for me.

Slydini didn't "invent" the trick. It's described in SCOT'S "DISCOVERY OF WITCHCRAFT" (about 500 +/- years ago!). Quintino Marucci (stage name: Slydini) did develop an excellent "up to date" PRESENTATION. (I don't say that to denigrate Slydini. It's just a historical fact.) I had learned how it was DONE about five years before Slydini "appeared" on the scene! (I first saw his name mentioned in one of the CONJUROR'S MAGAZINE issues in the late '40s.)

I learned it from a side show magician in the Bud E. Anderson Circus Side Show. He used a red and a blue bandanna. He 'killed' with it!. Bandannas will work, but cotton makes it a bit more difficult. As Bob noted above, Slydini used rip stop nylon. He was a tailor. On lecture tours, he carried a bolt of nylon. He would rent a sewing machine in a sewing machine shop and hem up a bunch of "silks" (Red thread on one of each pair to make the "work" easier.)

When I first did the knot(s) in a performance, I used RICE SILKS. Bob must have better silks, as the Rice silks didn't hold up. Harold was a good friend, I've used MANY of his silks. I found some solid color polyester scarves in a thrift shop, and they lasted a whole season! I've since bought a bunch of them--lifetime supply!

Now, TO YOUR 'PROBLEM'~! It MAY be that your "silks" are a bit worn, but I suspect that it's more the way you are tying the knot--and, how you are doing the "work". If you PM me, we can discuss the "situation"' I don't want to go into details here.

Dick Oslund
Sneaky, underhanded, devious, and surreptitious itinerant mountebanc

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Mary - Thanks for the care tips. I was curious about ironing them, but now I won't

Dick - PM sent.

Thank you!

Hi Dick, the link points to page 37 of Karl Fulves Self-Working Rope Magic where he explains how to "upset" a granny knot.

Charlie Edwards, whose routine is described in Routined Manipulation Finale, used cotton handkerchiefs. I found cotton very difficult to work with.
Palmer Magic sell the kind of silks Slydini used.
Eric Evans sells even better ones.