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Terrible Wizard Inner circle 1973 Posts |
Hi folks,
I don't know if anyone can help here, and I couldn't find the info from search or google (not that my google-fu is strong): I've really learned a lot from Gerry Griffin's Complete Card Magic DVD set (4 disc). But something that bugged me about it for a while is that often Gerry has revised or created his own handling of a classic effect and given it his own name. Which is fine, and I usually like his handling and presentation for an effect, but there's hardly any crediting on the DVD (which I hear was Magic Maker's doing more than Gerry's, not that I know the story behind), and in combination with the changed names it makes it really hard to discover proper effect names, originators and history. Has anyone looked into this already? And has anyone with greater card knowledge than I already found out the 'true' names (and history) of the effects on this DVD? As a last resort I could perhaps post desriptions of some of the effects which bug me and maybe people could help me identify them. |
Terrible Wizard Inner circle 1973 Posts |
I've just come across something which I think fits one of them.
On Disc 1: Intermediate is a great effect called 'Invisible Cards'. It seems to me to be a repackaging of 'The Magic Breath' from Hugard's Encyclopaedia of Card Tricks. Anyone know who came up with that trick? |
Atom3339 Inner circle Spokane, WA 3242 Posts |
TW, I think it would be GREAT to have such a list!
TH
Occupy Your Dream |
Terrible Wizard Inner circle 1973 Posts |
Me too! . Hence this thread. But I don't have the knowledge or the books to find out all this stuff on my own.
A few more that bug me, or where I've made a start (and hopefully people can confirm the above 'Magic Breath' one too): Disc 1 Beginner the Betting Game - the well-known 'gotcha' card turnover revelation. Who first came up with this presentation? Both 'Into the Future' and 'Sisters' seem to be variations on the Gemini Twins/ Daryl's Untouched principle. Not sure about more than that, though. Do as I Do - the classic two deck co-incidence effect. But who came up with it first? Cowboys and Indians - a virtually self-working story shuffle/assembly effect. Gerry says it was the first trick he learnt. Where does it originate? Disc 1 Intermediate 21 Card trick Outdone - a lovely little card variation that plays with people's pre-existing knowledge of the 21 card trick. Where did the original, and where did this nice 'parody' effect come from? Further Than That - this one is Stewart James, first published in the Jinx (I think). Use you Powers for Good - a wonderful impromtu OOTW. Anyone know the source? Invisible Cards - seems to be a re-working of Magic Breath. Is this Hugard's, or someone else? And is this improved presentation Gerry's? Two Card Challenge - is this a version of a DL two card monte? Disc 2 Advanced Twisting the Aces - Gerry's reworking of the classic effect. Am I right in that it originated with Vernon? Amazing Ace through Four - another twisting/transposition packet effect. No idea of the name or orign of this. Card Warp - the well known effect of that name. I think I could look up the origin to hat one, but someone might already have done it. Coney Island Caper - the Hotdog trick: no idea about this one. Triumph - the classic table version. again, is this Vernon's? Disc 2 Expert Oil and Water - a simple version of the classic packet effect using two sets of the same card. Anyone know the origin of the either the original effect, or this variation? Chicago Opener - another well-known effect. Disc 3 Expert Extreme The Collector - sandwich effect. No idea. The Man from New York - no idea. Herre, There and Everywhere - again, no idea, though it sounds familiar. Most Ambitious Card Mystery - ACR Gerry' Jumping Coin Trick - a version of a matrix, I think. Wow ... So many good tricks lacking decent credits . It's a shame this set didn't sort that bit out. |
Terrible Wizard Inner circle 1973 Posts |
I've just discovered the conjuring credits website. That'll help
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Terrible Wizard Inner circle 1973 Posts |
OK, using the Conjuring Credits website I've found the following - it'd be great if people could add to this, because I'm sure these effects went through stages of development before arriving at the version performed by Gerry in CCM. Ones I couldn't find info on I've put question marks next to.
Disc 1 Beginner The Betting Game: ??? Both 'Into the Future' and 'Sisters' seem to be variations on the Gemini Twins principle. Seems to come principally from Fulves(“Stopped Twice” in his Impromptu Opener, 1979, p. 2), but traceable back to Lorayne, Marlo, Anneman and Rungie. Do as I Do: the classic two deck co-incidence effect can be traced back as far as “The Sympathetic Cards” in Jean Eugène Robert-Houdin's Les Secrets de la Prestidigitation et de la Magie,, 1868, p. 227. Cowboys and Indians: ??? Disc 1 Intermediate 21 Card trick Outdone: ??? Further Than That - this one is Stewart James, first published in The Jinx, No. 134, Apr. 1941, p. 765. Precursor was William Larsen and T. Page Wright's “A Novelty Spelling Mystery”. Use you Powers for Good: ??? Invisible Cards - seems to be a re-working of Magic Breath -??? Two Card Challenge: a DL teo-card transposition, traceable back to Sloane 424, c. 1600s, p. 158 of the Pieper translation. Disc 2 Advanced Twisting the Aces: Gerry's reworking of the classic Vernon effect. Technique used traceable back to Daley (or Marlo). Amazing Ace through Four: ??? Card Warp:??? Coney Island Caper: ??? Triumph: this is probably Vernon's version. The plot is traceable to Theodore DeLand's “Inverto,” 1914, and has been worked on by many performers. Disc 2 Expert Oil and Water: usually attributed to Marlo, but with a whole range of possible precursors. Not sure about this particular version. Chicago Opener: Al Leech seems to have created the original routine and marketed it as “A Red Hot Trick,” 1950. Disc 3 Expert Extreme The Collector: multiple sandwich effect seems traceable back to O.W. Meyer’s “The Burglars” from Jean Hugard's More Card Manipulations Series 1, 1938, p. 17. However, this version owes more to Roy Walton's “The Collectors” from Abracadabra, Vol. 47 No. 1203, Feb. 1969, p. 99. The Man from New York: ??? Here, There and Everywhere: ??? Most Ambitious Card Mystery: an ACR. ??? Gerry' Jumping Coin Trick: version of matrix. Often credited to both Al Schneider and Derek Dingle. |
Leo-Kim Veteran user 359 Posts |
"Card Warp": Roy Walton, based on Jeff Busbys "Into the fourth dimension and beyond".
"Here there and everywhere", Hofzinser I Believe... Mikael Johansson Sweden
If it's worth doing, it's worth doing well (Donald Duck)
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Terrible Wizard Inner circle 1973 Posts |
Thanks Leo-Kim! so Card Warp is Walton with Busby as a precursor.
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Turk Inner circle Portland, OR 3546 Posts |
Quote:
On Oct 25, 2014, Terrible Wizard wrote: Conjuring credits website? Thanks for the heads-up; I didn't realize such a site would exist. Googling "conjuring credits website" brings up http://www.conjuringcredits.com/doku.php . Is this the URL site to which you are referring? Regardless, that site looks like an excellent place to start with researching efforts. If you were referring to a different website, would you please be so kind as to provide that website link? Thanks. Mike
Magic is a vanishing Art.
This must not be Kansas anymore, Toto. Eschew obfuscation. |
GreenKnight33 Regular user 151 Posts |
Great website resource! Thank you for posting.
Another cool page I love clicking through are for card plots. http://www.geniimagazine.com/magicpedia/Category:Card_Plots |
Terrible Wizard Inner circle 1973 Posts |
That's the one Turk/ Mike . Great, isn't it! And sooo useful for this sort of thing, especially In combo with the .behr archive.
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Terrible Wizard Inner circle 1973 Posts |
Anyone else able to help? I've hit a wall, I think.
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JoeHohman Special user Erie 706 Posts |
Here, There, and Everywhere: John Lennon and Paul McCartney, "Revolver," 1966.
Sorry, couldn't resist.... Seriously, though -- not having seen these videos, just from the title alone it sounds like it could be related to Everywhere and Nowhere, which goes back to Hofzinger. Not sure, but I think this was first published in T. Nelson Downs' The Art of Magic. |
Terrible Wizard Inner circle 1973 Posts |
Thanks to vlad, it may be that Optical Illusion has possible connections to Jazz Aces (Peter Kane) and maybe other effects (though direct lineage is hard to establish).
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EndersGame Inner circle Reviewer EndersGame 2196 Posts |
Quote:
Both 'Into the Future' and 'Sisters' seem to be variations on the Gemini Twins/ Daryl's Untouched principle. Not sure about more than that, though. Although the presentation of these seems to be somewhat similar, they are different effects with a different method. For some discussion about their relationship, see this related thread. The short version: "Into the Future" is indeed a variation of "Untouched", which is commonly ascribed to Daryl. "Sisters" is indeed a variation of "Gemini Twins", which is commonly ascribed to Karl Fulves. Both "Untouched" and "Gemini Twins" are included in David Pogue's Magic for Dummies under the names "Dream a Card, Any Card" and "Soul Mates" respectively. In his "Trickography", Pogue helpfully gives the following background for these two effects: Untouched: "Dream a Card, Any Card, devised and donated by Daryl, is based on the old dealing principle... Other magicians, including Glenn Gravatt, have come up with similar tricks. But Daryl made the trick memorable by keeping the deck in the spectator's hands and adding the dream theme." Gemini Twins: "Soulmates is an Annemann-Fulves trick recommended by Jon Racherbaumer. While the names Ted Annemann and Karl Fulves are linked by this trick, they weren't even contemporaries ... Fulves built upon the effect of the older Annemann - and their names are forever linked." "Into the Future" as taught by Gerry Griffin on his video, seems to be a variation of "Untouched" that is better known as "Double Deal", and which apparently has its roots in Al Leech's "The Spectator Does a Trick" described in his Cardmanship (1959). For some discussion of this variation, see this thread. |
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