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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Rings, strings & things » » Paddle Move With Index Card Help Please (2 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Barnstormer
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Batavia, Ohio
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I have been doing the paddle move with paddles (butter knives ect) for many many years.

I need to be able to do a paddle move with an index card and from a still photo description I am not sure I am getting it right.

I also want to be able to do the move in both directions.

Can anyone point me to a good video or set of instructions please?
Leo H
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The "Paddle Move" with a playing card is not hard at all. You can find it in the literature as the "Carlyle Move." Francis Carlyle was believed to have been the inventor but it predates him. I would be glad to PM you with a description.
mindmagic
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I learnt the Carlyle move from Bruce Elliott's "Classic Secrets of Magic" (you'll find the Dr Sack dice routine in there too). I use it all the time with business cards; I'm not sure it will work so well with larger, floppy index cards.

There's something similar, credited to Will Goldstone, in SW Paper Magic by Karl Fulves.

Barry
kris attard
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Malta
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Yes the Bruce Elliot book is where I learnt it too, and probably a good way to go.
vinsmagic
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Eternal Order
sleeping with the fishes...
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Pm me I will send you a demo with the handling
vin ny
Come check out my magic.

http://www.vinnymarini.com
vinsmagic
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Ditto
Come check out my magic.

http://www.vinnymarini.com
0pus
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Does anyone find the Carlyle move convincing? I don't. But maybe I have never seen it executed convincingly. To me it just looks exactly like what it is.

Is there something on youtube that shows a good - convincing - execution?
Barnstormer
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I am still looking for a good video or explanation of a paddle move with a business card or index card.

I bought the Elliot book and the little drawing was terrible.
mindmagic
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Quote:
On Nov 6, 2014, 0pus wrote:
Does anyone find the Carlyle move convincing?


Yes - everyone I've shown it to (even professional magicians). Try it in front of a mirror and you'll see why it works.

Barry
0pus
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Maybe I am doing it wrong. Not only is it an unnatural way to show both sides of a card (if executed without the sleight), it still looks to me like you did exactly what you did.

Either I am doing something wrong, or people who use it are only deceiving themselves.
MichaelJae
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Ohhhh the paddle move. One of the most deceptive moves in your arsenal. I use it daily.

Business cards
Playing cards
Lighter
Knives
Pens
Dollar bills
And of course...paddles
0pus
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Well, maybe I have a topological mindset, and maybe my assumptions come into play, but I find the paddle move deceptive in some circumstances but not in others.

For example, I expect plastic butane lighters and pocket knives to be the same color on both sides. Provided that the magician does not "overprove" that this is the case at the start of the routine, I think the transformation to be quite good. And the turnover move (or certain kinds of turnovers) are believable with these objects. Even leaving the two-colored knife examinable at the end is acceptable.

A less convincing use of the paddle move is with paddles, hot rods, jumping gems, etc. I don't know what these are to start with, and the magician must show that they are the same on both sides at the beginning. I find the transformation to a different color to be dependent on how much I bought into the initial lie that the paddle was the same on both sides.

Less convincing than that are the pens and pencils. I expect these to be different on the two sides and showing them the same at the start really strains credibility. And the manner of performing the turnover starts to look a little fishy. And if left at the conclusion, I think it comes very close to exposure of the paddle move because it can be reverse engineered.

Finally, the least convincing are the business cards, playing cards and dollar bills. We are all familiar with these items. Trying to convince the spectator of a "misprint" seems to me to be an impossible task. And to do so with a complicated unnatural turnover move is entirely transparent. And the fact that the object is left "normal" at the end certainly seems to telegraph that it was normal from the start.
Barnstormer
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Batavia, Ohio
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Quote:
On Nov 7, 2014, MichaelJae wrote:
Ohhhh the paddle move. One of the most deceptive moves in your arsenal. I use it daily.

Business cards
Playing cards
Lighter
Knives
Pens
Dollar bills
And of course...paddles


Can you post a video of doing so with business cards or index cards?

.
Leo H
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The paddle move was designed to be a "convincer" and nothing more. Granted, it might look more deceptive with knives than playing cards, but this isn't meant to stand on its own. With the exception of the Retention of Vision vanish, I can't think offhand of a move that can stand on its own without a routine. Most moves are meant to flow within the structure of the routine. This keeps things magically moving and helps prevent the audience from seeing through the deception.

For example, a false transfer by itself will not fool most people, but if it's couched within a cups and balls routine, the audience cannot be sure if the transfer was true or false. The magician places the ball in one hand, it disappears and reappears under one of the cups. The reappearance of the ball gives the audience no time to think about the transfer. The paddle move with cards is best effective, for example, within an All Backs routine. And as others in this thread have pointed out, in a casual low key manner and judiciously.
mindmagic
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Sorry, Leo, I can't agree. For years I've been "hand printing" business cards with the techniques in the Elliott book. I also floor people by showing them that a coin has two heads and two tails. The move is completely deceptive if done properly. With the business card turnover, by the way, it's about angles; what's obvious to you as a performer is invisible to someone opposite you.

I may have a go at making a video later.

Barry
Bill Hegbli
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Leo H, is absolutiely correct in what he has posted.

----------------------------------------------------

Mindmagic, you mean, you do nothing with your business, you only reach in your pocket and bring out a blank card, then show the other side as blank. Then hand the blank card to a person and they say, why are you handing me this blank card. you do not say a word to the person, you do not use more then one card. You do not display the card in any fashion, or move it. You only transfer the card to the other hand and hand it out. I ask, because if you do anything or say anything, then that is considered a routine, your routine. So it may be a case where your have a routine for your business card, but you do not realize it is a routine.

----------------------------------------------------

Opus, you are 100% correct, this is a terrible move, and it will not fool anyone. Why you believe you have to argue with the other members makes little sense to me. We all herd you the 1st time. None of us are trying to change your mind. So just don't do it, but thanks telling us how you feel about it. None of us want to argue with, and have no desire to prove anything to you at all.

----------------------------------------------------

Back in the 1980's when packet tricks hit the market big time, that move was one of the main moves described. Can you imagine showing 4 to 10 cards with the turn over move. I wish I could recall the proper name for the turn over. I would think it should be in the Jerry Mentzer booklet on "Counts, Cuts, Moves, and subtlety".

----------------------------------------------------

Why some of the above members are comparing this to the Paddle move is puzzling. Cards are not held in the same way the move is not excited the same way. It does not have be passed through the hand when using number of cards. The main use for it is to just show a number of blank cards, blank on both sides. I guess someone took it down a few levels and thought it should be the main method for a simple card printing or mental photography type trick. Not strong at all in my opinion, but okay in an impromptu pinch.
Leo H
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Thank you Bill. I think the Carlyle Move with a playing card is considered a paddle move because the magician shows the same side of the card after the turnover. This is also what we do with knives and paddles. But whether you're using a card or knife, it's just a convincer.
vinsmagic
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Barnstormer I said I would send a turotial but you never answered
Come check out my magic.

http://www.vinnymarini.com
mindmagic
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OK, Bill - perhaps I do have a "routine" - but it's only a 10 second one!

Barry
0pus
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Quote:
On Nov 9, 2014, Bill Hegbli wrote:

Opus, you are 100% correct, this is a terrible move, and it will not fool anyone. Why you believe you have to argue with the other members makes little sense to me. We all herd you the 1st time. None of us are trying to change your mind. So just don't do it, but thanks telling us how you feel about it. None of us want to argue with, and have no desire to prove anything to you at all.



Dear Bill Hegbli,

It was not my intention to be argumentative. My original comment was that I don't find the Carlyle move convincing, but maybe I have never seen it executed convincingly, and I requested a referral to a video of a good execution of the move. In my second comment I said that maybe I was doing it incorrectly. I was really seeking some kind of suggestion on how I could make my execution of the move better. My third comment may have been more ambiguous - I was saying that the paddle move was less suspect in certain cases, but where the object was in a natural state at the end of the operation, the move needed to be more strong in order to clearly demonstrate that, for example, the card was double-backed, something that is unusual for a laymen.

I am asking how I can execute the Carlyle move in a convincing manner. So maybe I should not have asked generally whether anyone found it convincing. I apologize if that comment de-railed the thread.

Like Barnstormer, the original poster, I would really appreciate some pointers and videos from experienced performers that would help me make the Carlyle move - in my hands - all that it can be.
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