Hi all. I'm a fairly advanced coin worker and was wondering about the cylinder and coins. I followed previous posts but was wondering if it was gaffed or ungaffed? If so where can I buy the cheapest gaff to accomplish it? Also, where can I see and learn the routine? I know it's on Carney's new Dvd Carney on Ramsay. I saw a Mike Gallo vid for the Siamese Coins that said Ramsay without Tears...was that cylinder and coins? Which would be the best way to go to see and learn this much talked about routine?

A very good version of this effect is Roger Klause's Whisper. On dearler I know who has it for sure is Denny&Lee's.

Also check out the book Dai Vernon's Tribute To Nate Liepzig written by Lewis Ganson.

The magicians you mentioned above all have very good work on the effect.

Actually, I think that whisper falls more into the cap and pence category. I know this is kind of splitting hairs but the main difference is the cap and pence is when the stack of coins penetrates the back of the specator's hand under cover of the cap or rolled bill while the cylinder and coins is a longer routine. I believe Ramsey originated the routine but I could be wrong there. His version can be found in the Ramsey Legend books. I haven't seen the Carney DVD but his Carneycopia book has an excellent write up of the routine. Also, an overlooked book that has my favorite version of the routine I've seen is The Feints and Temps of Harry Riser. As for the gimmick, in order to do the routine the coins and the gimmick should be made from worn soft silver dollars or half dollars if your hands are small. This means having someone do custom work since I haven't seen anybody who makes the gimmick regularly but Denny probably has some leads.

At the WMS I saw Thomas Wayne had a really nice version of the cylinder. It was nice leather and had wooden caps that fit nicely on each end so that you could stor everything you need but the want in the cylinder. When you want to perform you take off the caps and you're in business.

I hope this helps.

Dave

UPDATE - I just ammended this post. The really nice cylinder I saw was Thomas Wayne's. Since he and Joe shared a booth I got confused. It was the same one reviewed on the coinmagic.com site and it looked great.

Well actually what you said is right. Same type of something that makes it work but not the same effect in alot of respects.

Fastest... go to international magic and order the video of his student, Andrew Galloway teaching the stuff.

There is a version using Edge Grip in David Roth's Expert Coin Magic.

As far as routines that are in print or video, I like Carney's version over the one taught by Galloway.

Carney's version (via DVD or Carneycopia book) streamlines the routine to get rid of the feints and extra phases like making a coin penetrate your hand, and makes it a straightforward four coin vanish, appearance, and reproduction.

Once you learn the basic structure of the routine, you can then apply your favorite 3-4 coin vanish and reproduction to the routine.

The cheapest way to make the gaff is to drill holes in silver dollars and epoxy them together, and buy Frank Starsini's leather Cylinder.

The expensive props are reviewed at my website (click the link in my signature).

Geoff Latta performed his version at the recent WMS in Vegas, and I heard the audience was BLOWN away.

Cool, I'm going to go with the Carney DvD...I'm very interested. Thanks everyone.

Mike,

Yea I wish I was there to see Latta and Conover perform their routines, I hear those routines are two of the best around.

I saw Conover's routine from the Mullica video. He went through that thing like a madman with scary precision. I'd love to see where he has gone with it over two more decades.

The closest thing I have seen Geoff do is make three coins vanish and re-appear with killer prestidigitation. I love his non-chalant matter-of-fact tossing away of a coin "I don't need it" coin vanish.

Geoff - if you read this, is your C&C routine going to be in your books?

In answer to YOUR question, twisted...

The original set a standard FEW have come close to meeting. It fooled Vernon and the gang back then. It will take a good bit of imagination and practice to rework the trick so it will fool most magicians again.

For some reason the VERY personalized vanish sequence has become a sort of coinman-test for folks who want to go beyond one ahead type routines. Aside from the vanish sequence, the trick is quite approachable and more of a presentation problem than a test of skill.

About the closest MODERN version with similar impact potential is David Roth's which is in his book 'Expert Coin Magic'.

There are 'other' versions of the trick around. Yours truly has some published work on the trick. More unpublished work too.

You can expect to see some work on the routine from Wesley James in the next year or so.

In case you are interested... Geoff Latta introduced me to the trick back in 76 as a puzzle/problem. After I had my own answer to doing the trick he told me of the basic idea behind the Ramsay / cap&pence application. Once I got started on the problem... I even used Goshman salt shaker moves to bring the coins IN one at a time and play with different vanish methods.

Magic is so much more interesting to learn as problem solving exercises. ** Thanks Geoff **

Joe Porpers complete set of props for the Coins and Cylinders is as good as it gets... see pictures of it in the March Genii.

Here are a few versions I've come accross:

Books
Dai Vernon/Ramsay - Art of Close up Magic -Ganson
R. Paul Wilson - 5x5 Scotland - Kaufman
Carney - Carneycopia - Minch
Ramsay - C&C Manuscript - Farelli
Rasmay - Ramsay Classics - Galloway
Roth - Expert Coin Magic - Kaufman

Video/DVD
Galloway on Ramsay
Carney on Ramsay
Up Close and Far away - Carney
Conover - Mullica Bash Video

I personally like Carney's handling the best and possibly Kohler's presentation the best but if you want to be blown away check out Conover on the Mullica video. Bad quality but that dude can traffick coins around like nobody's business.

And if you want a cylinder to get you started mine are getting great reviews and are cheap. You can check out the testimonials on the site.


http://www.theambitiouscard.com/paypal/cylinders.html

Pete,

I think you may be talking about Thomas Wayne's C&C props. He and Joe Porper shared a table at the WMS. The C&C props are Thomas', not Joe's.

Thomas' cylinder looks like this:

If you really want to be blown away, see the way Conover's doing it now which is significantly different from the way he did it on Mullica's tape.