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ArtIn
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I'am not sure what to think about this product.
I guess most people will just like it method-wise and buy it because it seems easy to perform...and the gimmick is very clever.

I think I would use it in the following way:
You can have a little piece of paper (same size and color) and write something on it.
Then I would "remove" a little photo from my photo keyfob and pretend to put the paper into it.
That way it will just be a normal container used to isolate the paper... I think this could help to set everything up more natural.
Its about influencing somebody and not predicting their choices (for me).
So I would also start with a bigger choice of 5-6 borrowed items from start - 3 items will be "freely" selected.

kind regards
Martin
Jheff
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Quote:
On Nov 13, 2014, Martin Pulman wrote:
Jheff,

I wasn't aware that Free Will took its three way prediction from a previous effect. I don't think that is common knowledge as Deddy Corbuzier is consistently credited as its originator. Can you direct us to the original creator and effect as I think they should be properly credited with this terrifically simple but powerful idea.

Regards,
Martin

Martin,

I'm not aware of that either, because that's NOT what I wrote. Deddy (with Paul Richards) is the originator of the effect. But Deddy is not the originator of the principles involved.

Jheff
Marketplace of the Mind PARIMENTAL, a 200 page exploration of a classic Martin Gardner principle, is now available!!
Martin Pulman
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Jheff,

I feel proper crediting is important in mentalism; and is too often ignored in the age of the self-published ebook. I think those who create original effects and principles should be acknowledged. Equally, I don't think we should withhold credit from, or cast doubt upon, people who have earned it.

As far as I am aware, Deddy Corbuzier is the creator of what has commonly come to be known as the Free Will Principle, which most people take to mean the specific principle used within the "prediction" part of the effect (which I shall obviously not discuss here on an open forum). You seem to feel that he is not the originator of this principle. You obviously have a much vaster knowledge of mentalism effects than I do, so I am very happy to bow to your greater wisdom on this.

But if you are correct, it seems very important to me to reference who is the originator of the principle used in the prediction part of Free Will. That person should be given the credit they deserve as the idea is a brilliant one.

Regards,
Martin.
George Hunter
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The distinctive principle involved actually focuses on the revelation phase of Free Will, and is essentially (and only) a specific gambit rooted in Equivoque lore. If this phase of Free Will involves a newer and more revolutionary principle than that, I have missed it in toto. (It is VERY possible that I have missed it. In several other discussions, people have helped me to experience "a blinding flash of the obvious.")

George
mastermindreader
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Quote:
On Nov 14, 2014, ArtIn wrote:
I'am not sure what to think about this product.
I guess most people will just like it method-wise and buy it because it seems easy to perform...and the gimmick is very clever.

I think I would use it in the following way:
You can have a little piece of paper (same size and color) and write something on it.
Then I would "remove" a little photo from my photo keyfob and pretend to put the paper into it.
That way it will just be a normal container used to isolate the paper... I think this could help to set everything up more natural.
Its about influencing somebody and not predicting their choices (for me).
So I would also start with a bigger choice of 5-6 borrowed items from start - 3 items will be "freely" selected.

kind regards
Martin


You know, I like that a lot. But I don't think I'd pretend to remove a photo, because then it would be expected that you'd put it back into the key fob afterwards. Instead, I'd "remove" a little cheap paper that has "Viva Las Vegas!" printed on it- or something equally tacky so that the key fob appears to just be a cheap souvenir. Then you could just crumple it up and throw it away before you pretend to put the "prediction" into the fob.

Also a nice idea there about starting with five or six objects.

Good thinking.
sandsjr
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Quote:
On Nov 15, 2014, mastermindreader wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 14, 2014, ArtIn wrote:
I'am not sure what to think about this product.
I guess most people will just like it method-wise and buy it because it seems easy to perform...and the gimmick is very clever.

I think I would use it in the following way:
You can have a little piece of paper (same size and color) and write something on it.
Then I would "remove" a little photo from my photo keyfob and pretend to put the paper into it.
That way it will just be a normal container used to isolate the paper... I think this could help to set everything up more natural.
Its about influencing somebody and not predicting their choices (for me).
So I would also start with a bigger choice of 5-6 borrowed items from start - 3 items will be "freely" selected.

kind regards
Martin


You know, I like that a lot. But I don't think I'd pretend to remove a photo, because then it would be expected that you'd put it back into the key fob afterwards. Instead, I'd "remove" a little cheap paper that has "Viva Las Vegas!" printed on it- or something equally tacky so that the key fob appears to just be a cheap souvenir. Then you could just crumple it up and throw it away before you pretend to put the "prediction" into the fob.

Also a nice idea there about starting with five or six objects.

Good thinking.


It is good thinking but in my view it starts to put too much focus on the fob. Why would I go through the hassle of doing all that when I could simply write it on a paper and turn the paper over on the table?
genius
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But Jheff's version is still better in your opinion, right?

Mindblowingly,
Charles

Quote:
On Nov 15, 2014, mastermindreader wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 14, 2014, ArtIn wrote:
I'am not sure what to think about this product.
I guess most people will just like it method-wise and buy it because it seems easy to perform...and the gimmick is very clever.

I think I would use it in the following way:
You can have a little piece of paper (same size and color) and write something on it.
Then I would "remove" a little photo from my photo keyfob and pretend to put the paper into it.
That way it will just be a normal container used to isolate the paper... I think this could help to set everything up more natural.
Its about influencing somebody and not predicting their choices (for me).
So I would also start with a bigger choice of 5-6 borrowed items from start - 3 items will be "freely" selected.

kind regards
Martin


You know, I like that a lot. But I don't think I'd pretend to remove a photo, because then it would be expected that you'd put it back into the key fob afterwards. Instead, I'd "remove" a little cheap paper that has "Viva Las Vegas!" printed on it- or something equally tacky so that the key fob appears to just be a cheap souvenir. Then you could just crumple it up and throw it away before you pretend to put the "prediction" into the fob.

Also a nice idea there about starting with five or six objects.

Good thinking.
Martin Pulman
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Quote:
On Nov 15, 2014, George Hunter wrote:
The distinctive principle involved actually focuses on the revelation phase of Free Will, and is essentially (and only) a specific gambit rooted in Equivoque lore. If this phase of Free Will involves a newer and more revolutionary principle than that, I have missed it in toto. (It is VERY possible that I have missed it. In several other discussions, people have helped me to experience "a blinding flash of the obvious.")

George


I have no idea why people seem determined to deprive Deddy of the credit for what has come to be known as the Free Will principle. I have no recollection of the simple but truly brilliant method used in the prediction part of Deddy's effect appearing previously in mentalist literature, but it may well have done.

If so, it is only fair, (if ironical) to stop playing with words,and simply tell us the originator of the prediction part of the effect and where and when it was first used.
mastermindreader
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Quote:
On Nov 15, 2014, genius wrote:
But Jheff's version is still better in your opinion, right?




Yes, because there is no need to justify the prop.

Personally, I would just do it with a single folded billet lying on the table and no equivocal subtleties would be required. When opened and read the prediction would directly state, for example, "The man will have the credit card, the woman will hold the wallet, and Bob will have the watch. (Or ANY three objects at all.

Anyone could read it aloud.

But the issue of apparently having a picture in the fob is now moot, as I've read that an insert has to be removed from the fob in order to see the prediction. (I've left out some details here as I have a pretty good idea of how this probably works and don't want to inadvertently expose anything. Particularly because, if it is what I think, it's very clever indeed.)

So ArTin showed good thinking, but both he and I were hindered by the fact that we didn't know that the prediction is actually contained in a removable insert within the fob.

But, no matter, the idea now has me thinking in completely different directions and I will probably buy one of these anyway, whether I actually use it or not.

No doubt that fair play will be very clever and a fooler. My main concern is whether or not it will seem like a Tenyo trick (i.e., a toy specifically designed to do a trick).

We shall see.
Steve Haynes
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Hi Bob,would love to converse more privately either email or phone.
Can't PM you it seems,but if your up for it please let me know.
Email is stevehaynes1@gmail.com
Phone# is...Smile
mastermindreader
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PMd you, Steve.
George Hunter
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Martin:

I have no interest in depriving Denny, or anyone, of credit for effects they originate. But if it means this much to you, I will gladly concede your point.

George
Martin Pulman
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George,

Proper crediting does mean a lot to me. I hope it means a lot to everyone here.

Regards,
Martin.
IAIN
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For me, the keychain (regardless of its usage) seems a little forced..if I had a premonition of something, it would just be jotted down somewhere and kept safely either in a wallet, or in an envelope...even jotted down in a notepad and circled (realistically speaking at least)...having this "note to self" anywhere else doesn't seem right to me...
I've asked to be banned
sbays
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A friend of mine actually bought me one of these the other day when he picked one up for himself. Thanks bud. Smile

I actually really like this. Typically, I also do my variation of Free Will by writing it down on the fly. But Fair Play does allow something pretty nifty, and that is a total and complete choice of where the items go. You do not have to do any of the "work" you normally have to. Just remove the fob. Which brings me to my next point.

These can be finicky. You may have to make "adjustments" while handling it. I don't want to say too much to avoid exposure. But it's not totally fool proof. It is a gizmo after all.

Will this replace my standard way of performing this effect? No. But I do like this. And it's great for those totally impromptu moments.

And as far as the comments about not being able to justify it being in a key fob, well if you can't work your way around that, I don't know what to tell ya.
"Opportunity may only knock once, but temptation leans on the doorbell."
IAIN
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Before this came out, name me one person you know who kept a written note inside a key fob!
I've asked to be banned
Martin Pulman
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I agree with Iain. This feels like rather contrived creativity. If you were designing this effect from the ground up, I doubt very much you would want your prediction to be in a key fob. But I can see that it is easy and convenient for people to perform, so I don't doubt it will be a huge seller.
sbays
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Quote:
On Nov 17, 2014, IAIN wrote:
Before this came out, name me one person you know who kept a written note inside a key fob!


Who cares? How many "mindteaders" do you think the average person has come across? I have also never known anyone who carries around envelopes on them unless a letter or check is stuffed into it.

This thing simply looks like a little skip of paper in a small photo fob. Forget about the effect for a moment. Let's say I decided to carry a small note in a key fob for real. Would I feel weird about it, or feel the need to justify it? Nope. Not at all. These are self imposed rules. I have used this now probably just over a dozen times. Not once has someone mentioned anything about it being weird or out if place. I think this is only an issue for those of you who wish it to be. A key fob IS a common item. Where in the rule book does it say I can't keep a note in it?

Best part is, you don't have to buy or use it. Do it your way.
"Opportunity may only knock once, but temptation leans on the doorbell."
Martin Pulman
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Quote:
On Nov 17, 2014, sbays wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 17, 2014, IAIN wrote:
Before this came out, name me one person you know who kept a written note inside a key fob!


Best part is, you don't have to buy or use it. Do it your way.


That's right. But we do get to discuss it. Hence a mentalism discussion forum.
IAIN
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I care. And I care about the naturalness of objects. Of course I wont be buying it, no need to point that out.

To be cheeky though, what if I decided to wear a chalkboard as a spirit-hat eh?! We can go against the rules in some ways, as long as there's a natural logic to it that suits the persona. And I guess I am comparing/contrasting the key fob thing against all the other possibilities that may make more sense.

A hint of believability is a good thing n'est pas? 😊
I've asked to be banned
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