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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Is it time to question "Whatever the market will bear"? (3 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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S2000magician
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Quote:
On Nov 19, 2014, JoeJoe wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 19, 2014, S2000magician wrote:
Exactly: $1,000 today is the equivalent of $1 in 1913: the value of a dollar has decreased by 99.9%.


So you are suggesting that somehow this inflation has been good for the "have nots"? That they have somehow gained something the have have's have not? There are people that "own" property, and there are people that "rent" property ... and this 1000 percent inflation on the price of an apple has somehow benefited people that don't own an apple orchid?

I take it that reading comprehension isn't your trump suit.

I just wrote that the value of money has decreased, and that the value of other assets (relative to money) has increased. How anyone can interpret that as having a beneficial (or, for that matter, detrimental) effect on people who have neither money nor other assets is beyond me.
JoeJoe
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My comprehension is fine. The value of an apple has gone up 1000% is the same as the value of the dollar going down 1000%. The result is the same no matter which direction you do the numbers.

-JoeJoe
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S2000magician
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On Nov 19, 2014, JoeJoe wrote:
My comprehension is fine.

Then where did you get the preposterous idea that I suggested that inflation is good for the "have nots"?
slowkneenuh
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JoeJoe, there is no direct relationship between the dollar and specific items. Many other factors control the pricing of an item. Prices fluctuate no matter what the value of the dollar. The value of an apple going up could be the result of a bad year for apple crops and other commodities could well have gone down in price. The same with real estate, "location, location, location" plays just as an important role as the value of the dollar. The value of the dollar may cause a trend but not necessarily a one to one relationship.

Despite all of the interesting posts on economics, I am still convinced that professional athletes (among others) make far in excess of what they need and deserve, and the situation doesn't benefit society as a whole.
John

"A poor workman always blames his tools"
JoeJoe
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On Nov 19, 2014, slowkneenuh wrote:
JoeJoe, there is no direct relationship between the dollar and specific items. Many other factors control the pricing of an item. Prices fluctuate no matter what the value of the dollar. The value of an apple going up could be the result of a bad year for apple crops and other commodities could well have gone down in price. The same with real estate, "location, location, location" plays just as an important role as the value of the dollar. The value of the dollar may cause a trend but not necessarily a one to one relationship.


There is a difference between "new money" and "new apples" and "new people".

There are xx apples on a tree, there are yy people to eat them. The price of an apple will not change that fact.

Growing more apples will. Eating the apples will. Having a baby will. And someone dying will.

But the actual dollar amount put on the sticker will not change the number of apples or the number of people eating them. There are two components to inflation: actual increase in value, and the inflated increase in value. The inflated part is the bad part, it happens when more money is created than apples.

If it were possible to know how much "energy" was available on the market (apples=calories=energy), and how many dollars were in circulation, one could know exactly what a dollar is worth. Everything else is just a guess.

-JoeJoe
Amazing JoeJoe on YouTube[url=https://www.youtube.com/user/AmazingJoeJoe]
landmark
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On Nov 17, 2014, Dannydoyle wrote:
Landmark you are arguing simple bias you have. By using terms like "criminal leech CEO" and such you simply have a belief almost akin to a religious belief. You are not arguing anything that is fact based.

While the more commonly used term for Goldman Sachs--"giant vampire squids"--is more technically correct, "criminal leech CEO" is still an accurate state-of-the-art term when referring to Blankfein in particular. See the great Matt Taibbi article from Rolling Stone here: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/new......20110511
Dannydoyle
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Yes your bias is obvious thanks.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
rockwall
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On Nov 14, 2014, slowkneenuh wrote:
IMHO, when will society recognize that there are professions much more worthy of an outrageous salary (not many though) than the ones based solely on an individual's skill in catching, throwing or hitting a ball? It's been absurb for years now and getting worse!

"Marlins, Stanton discussing record-breaking $320 million deal" - http://xfinity.comcast.net/articles/spor......Slugger/


It's not just sports stars. Here are some interesting ways you may not be aware of that some are making millions:


http://www.brobible.com/entertainment/ar......ionally/
22-Year-Old Is Making $1 Million A Year Playing ‘Call Of Duty’ Professionally

“Not bad for someone who was literally “flipping burgers at McDonalds” just three years ago.”


http://online.wsj.com/articles/youtube-s......02939896
YouTube's Biggest Draw Plays Games, Earns $4 Million a Year

“ "Pewds," as he is often called, simply plays games and allows his audience—mostly teenagers—to peer in on his experience and hear random opinions interspersed with odd behavior. He contorts, screeches, swears, sings and even "twerks" to portray his feelings.”

http://www.businessinsider.com/who-is-evantubehd-2014-9
This 8-Year-Old Makes $1.3 Million A Year By Posting YouTube Videos

“Evan rakes in $1.3 million a year from posting his toy reviews to YouTube.”


Criminal leeches one and all!
landmark
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On Nov 19, 2014, Dannydoyle wrote:
Yes your bias is obvious thanks.

My statement may not be to your liking but the two adjectives and the one noun are all factual. Please read the Taibbi article I linked to if you think I am just spouting my bias.

"Thanks to an extraordinary investigative effort by a Senate subcommittee that unilaterally decided to take up the burden the criminal justice system has repeatedly refused to shoulder, we now know exactly what Goldman Sachs executives like Lloyd Blankfein and Daniel Sparks lied about. We know exactly how they and other top Goldman executives, including David Viniar and Thomas Montag, defrauded their clients. America has been waiting for a case to bring against Wall Street. Here it is, and the evidence has been gift-wrapped and left at the doorstep of federal prosecutors, evidence that doesn't leave much doubt: Goldman Sachs should stand trial."

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/new......JYzDjMFW
MagiCol
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Wow! I'm a late-comer to this thread. 5 pages in the past few days. A lot of posters spending time reading and posting.
My thinking is, What does it matter? Things aren't going to change anytime soon.

As magicians, we can increase OUR pay by improving our approaches to our magic BUSINESS.
The presentation makes the magic.
landmark
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No one is just a magician. We are fathers, mothers, sons, daughters, workers, employers, neighbors, friends as well.
In this section we try to put aside the magician aspect, important as that it is to most of us, in order to focus on other aspects.
Jonathan Townsend
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On Nov 24, 2014, MagiCol wrote:
Wow! I'm a late-comer to this thread. 5 pages in the past few days. A lot of posters spending time reading and posting.
My thinking is, What does it matter? Things aren't going to change anytime soon.

As magicians, we can increase OUR pay by improving our approaches to our magic BUSINESS.


First everyone counts. What you do matters.

Outside the not very magical still threads "improving our approaches" is very much part of ongoing dialog
...to all the coins I've dropped here
JoeJoe
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On Nov 24, 2014, MagiCol wrote:
My thinking is, What does it matter? Things aren't going to change anytime soon.

As magicians, we can increase OUR pay by improving our approaches to our magic BUSINESS.


It matters because everything in the universe is controlled by supply-and-demand - EVERYTHING!

If there is an increase in the chicken population, then the fox population has a supply of food ... as the foxes eat the chickens, there are then less chickens. Once there are less chickens, then foxes don't have food thus the supply of foxes go down and the chickens go back up.

Never ending cycles, constant changes ... understanding it is like being able to see the numbers of the matrix and know what they mean. No single supply-demand-chain is alone, each one altering each and every other one, stacked one of top of another.

It has nothing to do with money what-so-ever - money is just another supply-demand-chain. Like everything else in the universe, there is a supply of it and a demand for it. Just another commodity that man prints by the trillions making it one of the easiest commodities to obtain.

You can question what the market will bear all you want, it cannot be changed! You have xx apples on a tree, you have yy people to eat them. If you have more apples than the people demand to eat, the apples will die (rot). If there are not enough apples the people will die (starve).

That is what the market will bear, period. It is a law of nature that cannot be violated.

-JoeJoe
Amazing JoeJoe on YouTube[url=https://www.youtube.com/user/AmazingJoeJoe]
tommy
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A load of old cobblers.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
slowkneenuh
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JoeJoe, if we now take your simple theory as a key to understanding micro and macroeconomics ("What the market will bear, period. It is a law of nature that cannot be violated."), we can easily simplify it more by taking one more step up to "Life sucks (or if you prefer "Life goes on"), then you die". It is a law of nature that cannot be violated also. So why bother doing anything? Apathy is our masterplan?
John

"A poor workman always blames his tools"
imgic
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As a teacher of economics, this thread has hurt my head...

"What the market will bear" is not an absolute...it is subject to ongoing change.

If there are more apples than people want to eat, then the apple growers can embark on an ad campaign to increase consumption (i.e. "Got Milk")
The buggy whip market bottomed out as automobiles replaced horses (changes in technology)
Natural Gas prices have dropped since increased finds and drilling techniques in the US have produced more (increased supply)
And there are more...but I'm not going to turn this into a lecture.

As far as money being the easiest commodity to obtain, it's not that simple. Physical money is not the true value of currency. It's the value of what the currency stands for. In the old days, when we were on the Gold Standard, a paper dollar represented a certain amount of gold. Now, a dollar, as most government currency are, backed by the faith of the government. Merely printing money doesn't not increase the monetary supply in terms of value. Look at Germany after WWI. They would bring in old Marks and print extra zeros on the bills. Inflation was so bad that the cost of firewood or coal was more than the money it was printed on...it was actually cheaper to burn the money.

It's not so simplistic as apples an trees and printing more money...
"Imagination is more important than knowledge."
JoeJoe
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On Dec 8, 2014, imgic wrote:
If there are more apples than people want to eat, then the apple growers can embark on an ad campaign to increase consumption (i.e. "Got Milk")


Running an ad will not change the number of apples nor will it change the number of people ... therefore it will not change the price.

What is will do is increase the demand for apples - people see a picture of an apple pie and presto - "I want one of those"!

And the more demand there is for apples, the more the apples will cost.

So please re-think what you are saying. I know what I'm talking about. Smile

-JoeJoe
Amazing JoeJoe on YouTube[url=https://www.youtube.com/user/AmazingJoeJoe]
JoeJoe
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On Dec 8, 2014, imgic wrote:
As far as money being the easiest commodity to obtain, it's not that simple. Physical money is not the true value of currency.


It is that simple, you just want to complicate it. There is a supply of "transportation" ... the invention of the "automobile" increased that supply, therefore the price of "transportation" went down. We can now afford to travel more miles then we previously could. Let's crunch number bro...

In 1950 gas was 27 cents a gallon and minimum wage was 75 cents, thus you could purchase 2.77 gallons per hour of labor.

Fast forward to $3 a gallon and $7.50 minimum wage and you can only purchase 2.5 gallon of gas. So even though you are making $6.50 more per hour, you are being paid less.

When it goes down to $2 a gallon, you would be able to purchase 3.75 gallons. This is why there is no need to raise minimum wage, nature will take care of everything. Just go back to my previous example of chickens and foxes ... now we're looking at wages and gas and getting the exact same results. Today, the worker is getting less gas than in before, tomorrow he will be getting more gas than before - natural cycles. One day you are the chicken, the next day you are the fox.

Run any economic simulation you want ... only change "money" to "gas". So now, you go to work and your boss pays you with 3.75 gallons of gas. You can take that gas to the store and trade a gallon for a bag of apples. Money is just another commodity, there is a supply of it and a demand for it. I like to barter when I can, because I profit more that way.

The gold standard does nothing to change anything what-so-ever - all it does it determine what the supply actually is. We did away with it so we could control the supply of money in circulation. Unfortunately, it is being controlled wrong ... we keep adding more money to the system without new resources to match. "slow motion hyper inflation" ... and that my friend, is the real problem at hand!

And again, it all goes back to energy - everything is energy! Apples = calories = energy. It takes xx number of apples to travel yy number of miles, or it taxes xx amount of gas to travel yy number of miles. If one could add up all the energy available for trade, and divide by the number of dollars in circulation ... you would know the exact value of a dollar. Anything else is just a guess.

-JoeJoe
Amazing JoeJoe on YouTube[url=https://www.youtube.com/user/AmazingJoeJoe]
landmark
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Running an ad will not change the number of apples nor will it change the number of people ... therefore it will not change the price.


Again, not true. Advertising can enhance the perceived value of an item, meaning that the same number of people may be willing to pay more than before. For example, if before I thought that product x was made of gold plating, but later learn through advertising that it is actually made of solid gold, I might be willing to pay more. The demand for the product in terms of the numbers of people who want it, however, could very well stay exactly the same. That's why people do not just buy the cheapest invisible thread for example. Advertising has created a higher perceived value for some brands.
landmark
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This is why there is no need to raise minimum wage, nature will take care of everything.

Really? This will be headline news to those who live in poverty in countries with no minimum wage.
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