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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Finger/stage manipulation » » New to manipulation (8 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

JayF
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Hi! I'm 49 years old. I've been "into" magic since I was just a little kid, and I've been performing semi-professionally for over 25 years. I do mainly strolling, stand-up, and kid/family shows. Until now, I've never done any type of stage manipulation. I mean, I had a set of Adams multiplying billiard balls (the small red ones) when I was just a kid. And, I occasionally do a simple miser's dream in my family shows. But, I've never done split fans or anything like that. Heck, I can barely backpalm one card!

Over the years I've picked up a few resources on manipulation, though I really can't say what led me to buy them at the time. I've got the McBride card manipulation DVD set and his "Manipulation Without Tears" DVD. I've also got Jeff Sheridan's DVD course on card manipulation and his Genius at Work set. I've got Tony Clark's "Award Winning Card Routine" DVD and a VHS tape by Stephane Vanel on card manipulation. I've got Jay Leslie's DVD on ball manipulation and the Levent DVD set on the miser's dream. I've also got three books by Bill Tarr, and all of them contain information about manipulation. I think I've got a fanning deck and a couple of manipulation decks somewhere.

I recently saw the trailer for Hyunjoon Kim's "Unveil" DVD. I thought his card manipulations were just so cool. So, last night I showed the trailer to my wife. Now, she's seen a lot of magic, and at this point she usually doesn't like watching magic stuff. (We did go see Penn & Teller a week ago, and she loved their show. That's different from watching a video, though.) She actually watched the whole "Unveil" trailer without rolling her eyes. After the video finished, she turned to me and said, "I'd really like it if you learned to do some of that stuff; that was really impressive."

So, I'm feeling motivated to dust off some of those resources and props, and maybe try to learn some of that stuff. I'm wondering if any of you have any advice for a complete manipulation beginner. I will admit to wondering if maybe I'm a little too old to start learning manipulation now. I'm definitely not a kid anymore. And, I usually perform as a comedy magician, so I'm a talking act. It would definitely be out of my comfort zone to try to perform a non-comedy manipulation routine to music.

I'm not sure where I'd even perform a card manipulation routine. I know I'm many months (years?) away from even considering doing it for "real people." But, I'm not afraid of work and practice. So, for you manipulators out there, is all the time and effort worth it? Do you think 49 is too old to begin learning manipulation? I'd appreciate any thoughts you'd care to share.

Thanks,
Jay Frasier
ROBERT BLAKE
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YES it is worth it. NO you are not to old. you can use manipulation all the time. if you learn som basic thimble vanishes you can have a some fun with close up and children. same with coins, you can add something to the misers dream.

to start of try learning the Thurston 5 card vanish. 1 by on 1 cards vanish and you can produce thm again.

or do sigaret vanishes BUT use small pensils.

to start of learn some thimble work - sigaret/pensils and coins. them slowly progress to more difficult things. HAVE FUN Smile

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NKymdlBMV4 FUN START

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDqI5VTJSto THURSTON 5 CARD not the best presentation but it shows you what it is.
RJH
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I have one question for you: What style of performer are you? If you're very fast and have energy on stage, get Unveil by Kim Hyun Joon and Monster 1980 by An Ha Lim. If you're a slower type of performer who lets the magic speak for itself, get Artist Visual by Lukas and if you like it, take a look at his other DVDs, Artist System, Artist Classic vol 1 and Artist Classic Vol 2.

RJH
JayF
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Quote:
On Nov 15, 2014, ROBERT BLAKE wrote:
YES it is worth it. NO you are not to old. you can use manipulation all the time. if you learn som basic thimble vanishes you can have a some fun with close up and children. same with coins, you can add something to the misers dream.

to start of try learning the Thurston 5 card vanish. 1 by on 1 cards vanish and you can produce thm again.

or do sigaret vanishes BUT use small pensils.

to start of learn some thimble work - sigaret/pensils and coins. them slowly progress to more difficult things. HAVE FUN Smile

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NKymdlBMV4 FUN START

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDqI5VTJSto THURSTON 5 CARD not the best presentation but it shows you what it is.



Thank you for the encouragement! Something in your post reminded me that Chris Capehart does some card manipulation in the show that is on his kid show DVD set. So, there's a "place" where I could add it to my shows.

Thanks again!

Jay
JayF
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On Nov 15, 2014, RJH wrote:
I have one question for you: What style of performer are you? If you're very fast and have energy on stage, get Unveil by Kim Hyun Joon and Monster 1980 by An Ha Lim. If you're a slower type of performer who lets the magic speak for itself, get Artist Visual by Lukas and if you like it, take a look at his other DVDs, Artist System, Artist Classic vol 1 and Artist Classic Vol 2.

RJH


I am more of a fast/high energy performer. I have thought that doing something slower might add another level of "texture" to my shows, but that really isn't my "normal style."

Thank you so much for your suggestions!!!

Jay
Bill Hegbli
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My advice would be to learn the material you already have. The video from the Asian manipulators is not detailed enough. You have to know the basics. Most all are silent, with only visual explanations, usually from 3 different angles, so you can see the finger movements.

The 1st thing you have to decide is what you want to learn, Cards, Billiard Balls, Coins, etc. Only pick one and stick with it. If you have a second interest, say cards, then alternate the learning to keep it interesting so you don't get bored.

Tackling the most difficult moves may just cause you to give up before you get started. If you learn the basics and do them well, then you can go to the next step and it will be much easier.

There is nothing wrong with doing a very short manipulation segment. It shows your audience you have some skill. If you look further on YouTube you will see many of these Asian performers have been doing their material from a very young age. I seen one that was doing his billiard ball routine since he was about 12, (he looked that age), then he was a FISM winner in his twenties. That means, he was doing the same moves for over 8 years or so. He did improve when comparing the videos.

My advice is to set a certain time each week you can devote to learning and practice, say an hour to begin with. Watch a segment and then practice that segment until it becomes natural and part of you. Then tackle the next phase, and so on.

If you have the time and money, you can consider taking the Chavez Course in Manipulation Magic. It will give the basics in all the different props, Cards, Billiard Balls, Coins, Thimbles, and Cigarettes. It even touches on Dove magic. You will get instruction stage presence and showmanship as well. It is expensive and takes a few weeks, they may still have there mail order course as well.
JayF
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On Nov 15, 2014, Bill Hegbli wrote:
My advice would be to learn the material you already have. The video from the Asian manipulators is not detailed enough. You have to know the basics. Most all are silent, with only visual explanations, usually from 3 different angles, so you can see the finger movements.

The 1st thing you have to decide is what you want to learn, Cards, Billiard Balls, Coins, etc. Only pick one and stick with it. If you have a second interest, say cards, then alternate the learning to keep it interesting so you don't get bored.

Tackling the most difficult moves may just cause you to give up before you get started. If you learn the basics and do them well, then you can go to the next step and it will be much easier.

There is nothing wrong with doing a very short manipulation segment. It shows your audience you have some skill. If you look further on YouTube you will see many of these Asian performers have been doing their material from a very young age. I seen one that was doing his billiard ball routine since he was about 12, (he looked that age), then he was a FISM winner in his twenties. That means, he was doing the same moves for over 8 years or so. He did improve when comparing the videos.

My advice is to set a certain time each week you can devote to learning and practice, say an hour to begin with. Watch a segment and then practice that segment until it becomes natural and part of you. Then tackle the next phase, and so on.

If you have the time and money, you can consider taking the Chavez Course in Manipulation Magic. It will give the basics in all the different props, Cards, Billiard Balls, Coins, Thimbles, and Cigarettes. It even touches on Dove magic. You will get instruction stage presence and showmanship as well. It is expensive and takes a few weeks, they may still have there mail order course as well.


I didn't think I needed to buy anything more at this point. I mean, I'm sure I could spend the rest of my life just trying to learn and polish what I have now. I think I will concentrate on card manipulation. My wife likes it, I like it, and I think I can see myself using it in a kid show like Chris Capehart does. Thank you for your advice!!!

Jay
Bill Hegbli
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Jay, my comments were taking into account your original post, where you mentioned, "Hyunjoon Kim's "Unveil" DVD". This was what my comments were based on, as it sounded like you were going to go there 1st. That is super difficult manipulations, way beyond any of the DVDs you already have mentioned in your original post.

If you don't have the proper manipulation cards, my advice would be to purchase a few manipulation decks. It will make the learning curve shorter.

I suggest if you have large hands to use this poker size manipulation deck.
https://www.stevensmagic.com/shop/japane......rds-ugm/

If you prefer bridge size cards, then the Lance Burton Manipulation Deck is superior to any on the market, in my opinion.
http://www.thecuckoosnest.com/zencart/ze......_id=7222

If you wish to present a Fanning Routine, then Abbott's Zinab Fanning Deck is the best currently and easy to acquire. This deck makes very good designs as well, in my opinion.
http://www.abbottmagic.com/Abbotts-Fanni......oryId=-1

Steals are important part of a good card production routine, as well as to make a magical appearance of a fan of cards. There is not much written on stealing or hardly anything on any of the DVDs recently produced. It is up the performer to work out these methods for himself. An Excelsior Paper clip (aka Butterfly Paper Clip) is the easiest card clip to use. Just attach a two inch safety pin to the top of the clip. Banker's clips are also useful for holding cards for making steals.

Butterfly Clip (I guess they no longer call them Excelsior Clips.)
http://www.staples.com/ACCO-Ideal-Paper-......t_433359
http://www.amazon.com/Officemate-Butterf......per+clip

Banker's Clip
http://www.amazon.com/Charles-Leonard-CH......ker+clip

Norm Nielsen Manipulation Cards (bridge size) are also an excellent card, I prefer the $5.00 deck to the $7.50 deck. You will also need Fanning Powder which Norm Nielsen sells the best available on the market.
http://www.nnmagic.com/magicitems/manipulationpage.htm

Hope this helps you begin your journey in Card Manipulations.
ROBERT BLAKE
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Great post BILL.
Anatole
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The Dragon Fanning Deck
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfFLCil9Qto
is an interesting fanning deck that comes with a blank card for making a blank fan. The deck is slightly longer than a standard deck of cards, so the fans are slightly more visible from a distance.

There is a variation of the Dragon Fanning Deck with the same back design that reveals a cartoon image of a scantily clad, topless woman. so you might want to make sure which one you want to buy.

If you check eBay or the used magic dealers, you might be able to find the "real" Zinab deck which is what I use in this video clip:
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=526......&theater
It can be fanned blank on both sides and then changed into a legitimate 52-card deck that can produce beautiful designs.
(I contacted Abbott's about the misleading description of their deck as the "Zinab Deck" and on their website they now refer to the deck they sell as the "Abbott's Fanning Deck.")

While you're searching for that deck, keep your eyes out for the "Joe Cossari Fanning Deck" used by Haruhiko Nagisa at around 1:15 in this youtube videoclip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dONVO-uS7iM
Here's one on-line shop that advertises the Cossari deck, but you might want to call them to make sure it's still in stock:
http://themagicgadgetsite.com/index1.html?5205.html&1
The Nagisa videos are great instructional videos if you can find them.

And keep your eyes open while you shop in department stores, drug stores, game stores etc for playing cards with colorful, borderless back designs. When you find a good one, buy as many as you can and even contact the manufacturer to see if you can get more. Cardini discovered the Peau Doux fanning deck he used in his act at a Walgreen's store. The story of that deck in the John Fisher biography of Cardini is a fascinating story of how far a professional magician will go to have and keep something exclusive.

Joe Cossari is another magician who found a great fanning deck like these
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/uploa......ards.jpg
that he used in his act. I think the fanning deck that Lewis Ganson originally used in _Expert Manipulation of Playing Cards_ was a deck he found in a department store. In the updated hardback edition of his book, he used a Unique Studios Fanning Deck.

If you do serendipitously find a great fanning deck, let us know about it here on the Café... Or, you could buy out the whole stock and then the printing plates from the manufacturer so you can have an exclusive. (That last sentence was written in jest.)

----- Amado "Sonny" Narvaez
----- Sonny Narvaez
JayF
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I was away from the internet all weekend. Thanks so much for the great advice/experience/ideas you have all shared!

My friend, Dr. Ray Hyman, told me that he learned split fans and card productions and other card manipulations when he was young, but he never did any of it except at home in front of a mirror. Smile

Jay
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