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Sam Sandler Inner circle 2487 Posts |
I am not sure where to post this so feel free to move it however I am not posting for technical info but rather just to find out what kind of mic is used
do you use -wireless lapel -over the head or ear head set -hand held with neck holder or mic stand i ask this as I am working to add a new section to my lecture and notes i already discuss prop management and the like, but I am working on a new segment called "how we look" there for I am curious what you wear for sound. i will share my thoughts and reasons and ideas once I hear from a few of you. please do chime in as you will be helping my research as well as you might pick up an idea or two. thanks sam
sam sandler- America's only full-time DEAF Illusionist
http://www.samsandler.com http://www.deafinitelymagic.com |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Http://www.shure.com/americas/products/m......crophone
I think it is important to know your environment. I don't do kids shows or one night gigs. I work only in theaters. What might be free best choice for me could be the worst choice for another. For my environment this is the best possible choice. The Shure Countryman headset. I literally have no idea about other environments.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10585 Posts |
I think it will matter on the type of performer you are with regard to this question. For me, it's strictly a handheld wireless mic (with a mic stand), BUT I would never in a million years ever use/wear a neck holder. This is primarily a magician's thing and more so a kids magician thing (which I understand you are, so it may make sense for you), but in many circles this would be uninviting to many other performers. I've always thought they looked cheap or unprofessional for other performers.
I will say good mic management is very important for both functionality and appearance. So many performers lack the proper skills in this area, primarily when speaking to and covering the audio from a second person - on stage/in-audience volunteer, assistant, etc. Good mic management is a skill. Until you've worked mediums where this is essential such as radio and theaters, most don't always realize the significance of mic technique. Also most do not have a real or the proper understanding for mic and sound system quality. I can't tell you how many performers might have a decent show, a good professional look, but fail miserably when it comes to mics and sound systems, when in reality being heard is one of the most important aspects of a performance. It, without fail can make a show performance bad. To me the single-most investment to the performing side in your entertainment business should be in your mic and sound system. This is the one area where you should not want to cut corners, be cheap or take the easy way out. It is also an area that quickly separates an amateur from a professional. Professional entertainers should have professional tools. In another thread someone recently asked me what I meant when I referred to magician's and magician's mentalities, and this is one area where this screams the most. So many magician's think having a Happy Amp, Pignose, or a Fender Passport is having a good sound system. They are not. They are simply amplification systems, and poorly at that. Yes, there are places/gigs where a Fender system may suffice, but I would never convince myself into believing that it is a sound system. If you ever showed up at a venue or gig with a true soundman or audio team you would be considered a joke with carry such equipment and trying to pass it off as professional. |
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george1953 Inner circle Mallorca (Spain) 5943 Posts |
When I'm doing cabaret I use a shire diversity head mic. If I am doing mentalism I prefer a hand held radio mic.
By failing to prepare, we are preparing to fail.
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Donald Dunphy Inner circle Victoria, BC, Canada 7563 Posts |
Hi Sam -
I use a Samson Airline Micro, as discussed on this thread from the FX area. Also, there are many more threads on mics and PAs in that area of the Café. - Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
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Sam Sandler Inner circle 2487 Posts |
Ok thanks for the input.
i agree that many even most magicians fail miserably when it comes to mic and sound choices. i think one of the biggest pet peeves for me and one that I address in my lecture is the type of mic - the head set type i hate them! I hate seeing magicians wear them. here is my take on this. first I would ask all magicians to get rid of the stupid Garth brooks and Brittney spears look. it don't work! over the past 2 years as they have become popular I have seen countless magicians wear them and 100% of the time their head set was a distraction. over and over they would adjust them, or try to blow a balloon up and hit the mic and make a noise or have to move the mouth piece so that they could blow up the balloon. now in just the last 4 weeks I have witnessed several top name performers use them and it was just horrible. some times not quite their fault as they were guest lecturers at the convention. but I watched Michael Ammar adjust the mic 19 times in less then 4 minutes! that's horrible. he kept trying to make it stay where he wanted. after about 20 minutes he took it off completely! then I saw another top magician with enough scotch tape on his face that could have wrapped twenty Christmas presents. i have never seen any one including Garth brooks and Brittney spears use these head set mics with any success. why are they so popular? last night at a magic convention where my daughter was performing- one of the acts while performing put a blind fold on and then int he process of taking it off with vigor flung the head set mic off and across the stage to the ground! ugh! i will never use one. i have a quality wireless lapel mic. it stays put it sounds great and never needs adjusting. then second thought I have on these head set units is have you seen your press pictures or the pictures at your birthday party or banquet. it looks like a floating bee or ball in front of your face. its horrible. i am amazed that any one would use these head sets. so there ends my rant. next question would be WHY DO YOU USE ONE OF THESE HEAD SETS.. i agree your mic depends on your style and your act but I have yet to see how these head set mics add any value.
sam sandler- America's only full-time DEAF Illusionist
http://www.samsandler.com http://www.deafinitelymagic.com |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
You choose to nit pick and use observation bias so as to further your own opinion.
Ever see Penn and Teller? His Mic is in the glasses. I have heard lapel miscs that rustle every time a performer moves his arm. And while you feel the need to criticize Garth Brooks he seems to be getting by on a fairly high level if you ask me. You have a perception you want to further. Had I known this I never would have bothered to answer. I can show you many examples of bad lapel mic use. Does this mean that it is the fault of the mic or the performer? Really next time warn us it is a personal rant so at least I know not to post.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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george1953 Inner circle Mallorca (Spain) 5943 Posts |
I use a head set most of the time, I never have to adjust it. Mine also has a mute button for when I need to stage whisper. The lapel mics suffer from feedback, you have to be behind the speakers or you get feedback, I tried them and without exception in the venues I work they all had the feedback problems.
By failing to prepare, we are preparing to fail.
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M Sini Inner circle 1359 Posts |
Every sound tech I've ever talked to hates lapel mics. I used one for a few years but have stopped. As I move my head from side to side to speak to people one stage, the sounds gets distorted. I agree with Danny that I have heard plenty of lapel mics that rustle when the perfomer moves. I also agree with Geroge that I've always had feedback issue with lapels.
For the last few months I've been using a headset mic that doesn't require a bodypack. The transmitter sits right behind my ear. I too, am not a fan of the Garth Brooks or Mike Ditka look with the large mic attached to a headset. My mic looks more like a Countryman E6 and is barely noticable (also no tape and I never had to adjust it). That said, I'm no so concerned with how my mic looks but how well my audience can hear me and for that, my mic setup works great. As a backup I carry a Gim-Crack in my case so I can always go to a corded mic if something fails. |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10585 Posts |
Lapel or Lavileer mics are truly more for broadcasting such as for news anchors, talk shows, etc. where there is direct positioning and minimal movement. They were never intended for performance or stage use, especially where movement is involved.
In reality a headset mic is really just a lavileer mic however positioned directly in a more direct spot to make the movement issue less of a factor. My question to all of you headset guys, is what do you use when talking to or interviewing a subject, volunteer or assistant? The likely answer is use a second, hand-held mic. So now you really require the use of two mics. This never made much sense to me. I do get it with magicians who use two hands and need a more hands-free, but in my opinion if you're going to use a lav or headset mic, this is even more reason you had better have a real good quality professional sound system to support it. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Again I only work in theater settings.
So having a second hand held mic makes perfect sense.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Sam Sandler Inner circle 2487 Posts |
Danny sorry if you felt I decieved you or any one.
but I guess my point is I have yet to see some one perform a magic show and not fiddle with the head set mike at least a dozen or more times during the show. it becomes a distraction. now that being said I guess the next question is how to improve that. to me if I am watching a show and the magician keeps adjusting the mike several times a minute over the course of a 60 minute show that just takes away from the performance. i have uses a lapel mic with great success for many years and I don't get scratching noise and I don't have to adjust it every 30 or 40 seconds. i too have a hand held for times of need but in my show I only really talk to one person as I am deaf so I don't really do the interview stuff much any more. i do one and I make it funny. i ask a question and then pretend I did not hear it and then grab the volunteer and pull them closer to me real close and have them talk into the mic. i then interview them this way. its hilarious! but again my issue is the distraction I see with these head set mics. maybe its just me but I am so confused as to why so many use them and then spend so much time adjusting them. my point about Garth and brittney was merely to point out that even at that high level of a pro mic they still had to adjust it many many times thru out the shows. i would think the key to our performances is to remove distractions and let our audience focus on the performances but that is just my take on it I guess. thanks for the input. sam
sam sandler- America's only full-time DEAF Illusionist
http://www.samsandler.com http://www.deafinitelymagic.com |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Is it several times a minute or every 30 to 40 seconds?
You must have watched people who use some pretty crap equipment. I go through plenty of shows without ever having to adjust the mic and no tape. It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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charliemartin Special user Rapid City, SD 779 Posts |
Ken Weber's book Maximum Entertainment discusses this very topic. When I'm working comedy clubs or colleges, I walk in and find a hand held in a stand. Learn how to use it. I do use Nick Lewins' Mic Holder. It's great to have one in your prop case, just in case you need your hands free.
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Gerry Walkowski Inner circle 1450 Posts |
As far as mike preferances are concerned, I'm with Sam on this one all the way.
The last thing I want to do is look like Bane frome Batman with all these gears wrapped around my head. I use a wireless lapel mike and carry my own unit to all my shows. Even if folks offer to let me use their stuff I'll still opt to use my own system. My lapel mike is so small, you can barely see it. To me, that's the whole point - not to draw attention to it. Anyway, that's my 2 cents worth, Gerry |
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charliecheckers Inner circle 1969 Posts |
I personally use a Countryman e6. The reality is that there are compromises with any and every system. Funny though, we all believe we use the perfect one. The best advice I ever received on microphones came from reading posts from Dan McLean who used to post in the FX section. Below is a post of his from 2010. He also had additional info on his website. I also recall a post from Mindpro in the Inner Thoughts section that went into great detail on microphones and sound systems.
With regard to Lavalier microphones - if they were as effective as headsets, then every performer would probably use them - it's not that easy. Quote:
On Feb 18, 2010, Dan McLean Jr aka, Magic Roadie wrote: Here is a link to his website: http://www.magicroadie.com |
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Dynamike Eternal Order FullTimer 24148 Posts |
I use a headset. It can be distracting if the magician lets it. It is all about taking control. I manage my presentations to keep the audience attention so they will be entertained from beginning to end. It is like hypnotizing each individual to keep their eyes on my act, not the mic. If you perform well the audience is going to forget you were wearing a microphone. It is all about how the entertainer directs with showmanship.
Jeff McBride uses the hand help mic with the holder around his neck. He is a great entertainer. |
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Michael Messing Inner circle Knoxville, TN 1817 Posts |
The quality of my sound, whether music or voice, is very important to me. When using mics, the quality of the vocal reproduction goes in this order:
1.) Handheld mic - a quality handheld mic will give you the best sound 2.) Headset mic (this is the full-sized headset mic not an earset mic) 3.) Earset mic (i.e. Countryman type) 4.) Lavalier (lapel mic) With that in mind, I have been using a headset mic for at least 15 years because it gives me the best vocal clarity without tying up my hands. While I would prefer not having such a visible mic, the other options have not worked for me. While earset mics are far less visible, it is harder to get clean sound with the same level of volume as I get with a headset mic. There are several good threads on why that is from Dan McLean Jr aka, Magic Roadie, who is a professional soundman. He also has a website for information on sound: http://www.magicroadie.com - click on Audio and then you'll see his article on mics. Posted: Dec 2, 2014 09:41 am Oops, I just noticed that Charlie posted some comments from Dan McLean, Jr., as well. Missed that earlier. |
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Dynamike Eternal Order FullTimer 24148 Posts |
Quote:
On Dec 1, 2014, Dynamike wrote: showmanship. Correction: "held". |
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Sam Sandler Inner circle 2487 Posts |
I agree with the issue of sound quality but my point is the distraction both physical during the show and the awful pictures your audience how has of you.
i would be willing to bet that any of you that commented that have a headset mic adjust it many times during your show. its become habit and you don't even realize you do it. that to me is the issue. were magicians not country singers. I don't understand the fascination with a mic you have to adjust multiple times thru out your show. Dannydoyle- to answer your question as to how many times. I have seen in just the last 3 weeks performers that adjusted it several times a minute to some who only did it 2 or 3 times a minute to others who only did it 20-30 times over the course of their 30 minute set. point is it makes no sense to have this mic if you cant set it and forget it. (to quote Ron Popeil) but hey to each is his own and I get that. i just don't get why you would want to add distractions to your show. thanks again for those that chimed in I really appreciated it and appreciate your points of view and thoughts. sam
sam sandler- America's only full-time DEAF Illusionist
http://www.samsandler.com http://www.deafinitelymagic.com |
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