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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » RIP Eric Garner (18 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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greerj
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Of course that's not a reason to kill anybody. But IF, and that's a big if, he was pointing a gun at a police officer, then that could be a reason for being shot and killed. My point was that with the teen's history, it is plausible that he pointed a gun at the officer. It certainly is within the realm of possibility.
balducci
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Quote:
On Dec 26, 2014, greerj wrote:

All his arrests were within the last 15 months, he was convicted and had spent time in jail for some and was awaiting a court decision (whatever that means) on the most recent.

Do you have a good source / link for this? Especially the conviction part?

Obviously I do not know what happened but stories on both sides sound a little strange.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
Dannydoyle
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Of course they do.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
greerj
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Http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime......fba.html

http://fox2now.com/2014/12/24/citizen-de......3-crime/

I hope these work. As stated before, these do not justify a shooting, but I do think that with these and other charges that were pending, it is plausible that this young man pointed a gun at the officer.
tommy
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Why?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
greerj
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Quote:
On Dec 26, 2014, tommy wrote:
Why?


Why di I think it is plausible/possible? Because he had already been convicted of assault, (by pleading guilty, not contesting the alleged crime) and by having more charges of unlawful use of a firearm (which he could not own legally due to his age), armed robbery and armed criminal assault pending. Doesn't mean he did any of these, but is it possible? Sure. A stolen gun was found at the scene, police will process the fingerprints on it and release the results, and if they are his, one would have to think either the officer carried a stolen gun to use just for such an event AND had time to put the dead man's fingerprints on it (with witnesses there) or one would have to think that the deceased did have a gun. Whatever the truth is will hopefully come out.
tommy
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I see, sorry. I thought you meant that somebody on bail and well known to the police would be more likely to be walking around with a gun.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
balducci
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Quote:
On Dec 26, 2014, greerj wrote:
Http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime......fba.html

http://fox2now.com/2014/12/24/citizen-de......3-crime/

I hope these work. As stated before, these do not justify a shooting, ...

FWIW, AFAIK, the crimes he pled guilty to, and served 30 days in jail for, were not serious enough for him to have lost the right to carry a gun.

Of course that does not justify him pointing his gun at any person, including a cop.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
balducci
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On Dec 26, 2014, Dannydoyle wrote:

Of course they do.

Well, the story that the cop was lured to a busy well lit parking lot for an ambush sounds strange to me. But ymmv.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
Dougini
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And, of course we're talking about Mr. Martin here, not Garner, who I feel did NOT deserve to be choked to death. This creep, Martin...no sympathy. The idiot was NOT very smart. Criminals like him, usually aren't!

Doug
Kabbalah
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Quote:
On Dec 26, 2014, balducci wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 26, 2014, greerj wrote:

The teen had three previous arrests for assault, and charges of armed criminal action, armed robbery and unlawful use of a weapon. He had lost his right to carry a gun.


Charged or convicted? If only charged, with no convictions, is that enough for him to legally lose the right to carry a gun?


He never had the right to carry a handgun. In Missouri, unless you are active military, the concealed carry age is 21. In addition:

-meets the age requirement.
-is a citizen or permanent resident of the United States.
-has assumed residency in Missouri, or is an armed forces member or
-spouse stationed in Missouri.
-has not been convicted, or pled guilty or nolo contendre to any felony. has no weapons-related misdemeanor conviction.
-has not been convicted within the past five years of a violent misdemeanor
.
-has not been convicted of two or more misdemeanors involving DWI or
possession or abuse of a controlled substance within the past five years.
-is not a fugitive.
-is not currently charged with a felony.
-has not been dishonorably discharged from the armed forces.
-has not been adjudged mentally incompetent within the past five years.
-has received the required firearms safety training.
-is not the respondent of a valid full order of protection.

See here...
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balducci
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Okay, thanks.

Fwiw, your link says the regular age for concealed carry is 19, not 21.

Also, apparently the open carry age there is 18.

So he could not conceal carry, but it seems he could still legally own and open carry a handgun. (Not saying that he was necessarily a legal gun owner by any means.) I mean, the things you highlighted do not seem to apply here. (AFAIK he did not plead guilty to a felony previously etc.)

Anyway, I am not a lawyer, no interest in arguing the point. I was just seeking clarity.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Dec 27, 2014, balducci wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 26, 2014, Dannydoyle wrote:

Of course they do.

Well, the story that the cop was lured to a busy well lit parking lot for an ambush sounds strange to me. But ymmv.


Sounds strange because you have no idea what an ambush is in real life. You have no experience but that does not stop you from being an expert as usual.

I recommend trying getting ambushed and then get back to me about well lit busy parking lots.

Everyone is an armchair expert. Everyone knows everything about las enforcement and crime. What an amazing thing it must be to just know.

Contrary to what you watch on TV crime is not linear. It starts with a plan and usually a poor one. Then one in motion stuff happens that is indeed strange. Criminals are not brilliant. Most are desperate. But that does not make a good TV show.

The idea that everything makes logical sense shows how little real life experience you have about these things. Does luring a cop ANYWHERE for an ambush make sense? Post all the links you want and Google stuff till your fingers fall off you still have no experience.

You think the difference in 18 for open car or 19 instead of 21 matters at all. It only matters for to feel better and play GOTCHA.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
landmark
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Quote:
In Missouri, unless you are active military, the concealed carry age is 21.

Fascist pinko age-ists.
balducci
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Danny, you are far too argumentative for your own good, and too quick to take offense and think everyone is trying to one up you. The only one who plays GOTCHA here is yourself.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
Dougini
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On Dec 27, 2014, landmark wrote:
Fascist pinko age-ists.


ROFL! That was good! Thank you Landmark! Ya put a smile on my face! I never thought that possible in this thread! Hope ya had a great Christmas! Smile

Doug
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Dec 27, 2014, balducci wrote:
Danny, you are far too argumentative for your own good, and too quick to take offense and think everyone is trying to one up you. The only one who plays GOTCHA here is yourself.


I guess pointing out your lack of knowledge is argumentative huh?
And YOU were the one so worried about age for cc permits and such.

But if it makes you feel better it is me. No way it could possibly be you. After all you are an expert on everything.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Magnus Eisengrim
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Quote:
On Dec 27, 2014, Dannydoyle wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 27, 2014, balducci wrote:
Danny, you are far too argumentative for your own good, and too quick to take offense and think everyone is trying to one up you. The only one who plays GOTCHA here is yourself.


I guess pointing out your lack of knowledge is argumentative huh?
And YOU were the one so worried about age for cc permits and such.

But if it makes you feel better it is me. No way it could possibly be you. After all you are an expert on everything.


And you just LOVE IT when your (lack of) knowledge is discussed in, say, the climate change thread.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
Dannydoyle
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Show me what you are yapping about specifically.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
balducci
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Quote:
On Dec 27, 2014, Dannydoyle wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 27, 2014, balducci wrote:
Danny, you are far too argumentative for your own good, and too quick to take offense and think everyone is trying to one up you. The only one who plays GOTCHA here is yourself.


I guess pointing out your lack of knowledge is argumentative huh?
And YOU were the one so worried about age for cc permits and such.

I was not worried about it. I just wanted actual facts, some clarity.

I well understand why facts concern you so little, seeing as you were (I think) a former detective and all.

Smile
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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