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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
I'd be happy if my neighbor saw to it that murderers were incarcerated, i.e. a bad thing (incarceration) happened to bad people (murderers). So there is at least one circumstance where per that test, it's appropriate that a bad thing happen to bad people.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts |
Quote:
On Dec 16, 2014, LobowolfXXX wrote: Evasion much? The buzzwords you've memorized don't apply because I was asking your position. If you don't want to answer it then you can be straightforward about that. Why does every "yes" or "no" question have to be a tooth pull? Oh, gods, don't answer that.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Okay try it this way - would you still feel it was "right" if you knew kids would be watching the video of the action on youtube later that day?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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lunatik Inner circle 3222 Posts |
There's a lot of things that I wouldn't feel 'right' if kids would be watching it on youtube. I.E. sex, cussing, violence.......
"Don't let your Dreams become Fantasies"
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Quote:
On Dec 16, 2014, critter wrote: Perhaps if you'd asked a yes/no question instead of an A/B question, it might have been answered long ago. You seem to occasionally be blithely unaware of the way some of your postings might be reasonably interpreted. For instance, when you ask if I'm "actually" in favor of something, it suggests that I'm apparently in favor of it, which in this case led me to believe that you were asking at least a partly rhetorical question. And "straw man" (if you havent memorized that one yet, you can look it up) can, indeed, apply to rhetorical questions, because they're not really questions, per se, but instead snarky little passive-aggressive statements. When you phrase a question as "A or B," it's generally good practice to ensure that A and B encompass all possibilities. For instance, it's at least suggestive of a reasonable question to ask, "Did you mean it when said XYZ, or were you kidding?" Because if you weren't serious, then you were kidding (and vice versa). But if I said, "Do you beat up your girlfriend, or are you a coward?" It suggests that I believe that you either beat of your girlfriend, or you're a coward, and you might take offense at that. I infer that you're big on plausible deniability, so I won't claim that your question "Are you actually in favor of the American government shoving food up people's butts and drowning them (we can leave out "without a proper trial" for now) or are you arguing for the othe exercise of it?" inecessarily means that you're intending to imply that I either support Te American government etc etc OR that I was arguing for the exercise of it, but I will tell you that he vast majority of intellectually honest people with 3-digit IQs would take it that way. And since neither of those is the case (that is, the answer to your question as phrased is "No"), that interpretation does, indeed, present a false dichotomy.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
Quote:
On Dec 16, 2014, LobowolfXXX wrote: Agreed. Let's say the bad thing is anal rape. For me, at least, it no longer depends. There is the larger philosophical question, but the house is on fire right now.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
Quote:
On Dec 16, 2014, Jonathan Townsend wrote: No tests. It's a matter of one's moral values. Those are not a matter for scientific verification.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Quote:
On Dec 17, 2014, landmark wrote: By definition morals are the good habits for living in a society. How can one claim to know or verify what these are without testing observed behavior and patterns of reward? Things get interesting when you add punishment behavior into the study. Is chaos, a place where one cannot have expectations) a moral condition?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Quote: On Dec 17, 2014, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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RNK Inner circle 7491 Posts |
ISIS sure has some strong morals. KILL everyone that doesn't agree with us by chopping off heads. What a great moral. But we should not follow suit. Even though they do not care about ANYBODY and what ANYBODY thinks, America is bigger than that- we have a higher standard.
Check out Bafflingbob.com
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Quote:
On Dec 17, 2014, Jonathan Townsend wrote: That's one definition, anyway.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
Exactly. My definition is much more individual. I could be living on a deserted island and my moral values would be exactly the same.
Sometimes my moral values are in conflict with the society's goals. Sometime they make living my life more difficult from a practical standpoint.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Do you have something other than Aristotle's ethics to build upon? What does it offer as definition? Lets discuss. without a common ground it's difficult to have social discourse that goes beyond patterns of base observed behavior.
I'd like to continue to believe that others hold values consciously and as distinct from base impulses weighted by fear of expected reprisals.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
I don't remember my Aristotelian Ethics, but my own ethics I suspect are not the result of observed interactions. Most of them have to do with the abstract notion of fairness, and the Golden Rule. I have no idea whether that leads to a happier society or a happier me, though I suspect they may well do so. But that is besides the point. I don't pretend to defend my axioms or postulates.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts |
Lobo, I'll infer from your hypocritally snarky post about my snark to mean that you are arguing for the exercise of arguing. Temper, temper.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Quote:
On Dec 17, 2014, critter wrote: I'm not the one who loses his temper when we do this silly dance. Your inference is not only incorrect but also necessary. In my previous response, I answered your question quite directly: No.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts |
Well most people with a two digit IQ would have understood the question after the two times that I clarified. I understand, you don't want to commit to a position because then your arguments will be limited. I get it, never going to get a straight answer from you, just ad hominem. If we keep doing this you'll start looking for the iocaine powder
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Is "No" really not a straight enough answer for you?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Quote:
On Dec 17, 2014, landmark wrote: what, specifically would you like someone else to believe you mean by ethics (or morals) ?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Pop Haydn Inner circle Los Angeles 3691 Posts |
Principles are important--like ballast. You always want to have something left at the last minute you can still toss overboard...
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